Shaping a 9'0"- Rolled Bottom, 50/50 Rails

I have a 9’1Y" blank. Can anyone or everyone give me some tips on how to get a rolled bottom, 50/50 rail, classic noserider out of this blank. I’ve been riding a 9’6" Surfboards Hawaii Stylist II for the last couple of months…what a sweet ride. Questions: 1.What are the Clark (or Walker) blanks that work best for a 9’0" and 9’6" boards like these? 2. After skinning the blank, adding rocker and foiling it do you put in the bottom roll using rail bands? How many? (I’ve been putting 2 bands from 0 at 16" from tail to full cuts at nose. Then I use my sanding block to smooth and blend the bands into the bottom) The Stylist has rolled bottom throughout the length and I suppose rail bands the length of the bottom will do it. 3.Anyone have the time to layout a step-by-step for shaping a Classic Longboard. I don’t even know which blank to start with. Hasta Pronto Tom

1.What are the Clark (or > Walker) blanks that work best for a 9’0" and 9’6" boards like > these? 2. After skinning the blank, adding rocker and foiling it do you > put in the bottom roll using rail bands? How many? I can’t say I’m the expert yet, but I used Clark’s 9’8"S for my 9’6" Noserider. I gave it 50/50s and a mild roll on bottom. I made two bands starting 16 inches up from tail (I wanted a little bite around the fin, so there’s no roll there). I made the first band 2 inches wide (from rail), second was also 2 inches wide. With blending, the roll was a natural result from the taper down to the rails. Though I could be doing it wrong, I made my first band cut angle down to about 3/4-inch from the surface (at the rail). Then I bisected that angle with the second band, then blended. I did the same on deck and bottom, except the taper is more gradual on bottom. Hope that wasn’t too confusing. Maybe the old salts could clarify how it was done back in the day? Am I doing it authentically?..deeb…

I have a 9’1Y" blank. Can anyone or everyone give me some tips on how > to get a rolled bottom, 50/50 rail, classic noserider out of this blank. > I’ve been riding a 9’6" Surfboards Hawaii Stylist II for the last > couple of months…what a sweet ride. Questions: 1.What are the Clark (or > Walker) blanks that work best for a 9’0" and 9’6" boards like > these? 2. After skinning the blank, adding rocker and foiling it do you > put in the bottom roll using rail bands? How many? (I’ve been putting 2 > bands from 0 at 16" from tail to full cuts at nose. Then I use my > sanding block to smooth and blend the bands into the bottom) The Stylist > has rolled bottom throughout the length and I suppose rail bands the > length of the bottom will do it. 3.Anyone have the time to layout a > step-by-step for shaping a Classic Longboard. I don’t even know which > blank to start with.>>> Hasta Pronto Tom I always here people say 50/50 rails and so forth. What does each 50 stand for. What kind of rail would be 60/40 etc? Lets here the creative answers.

Deeb: Describe a little more how you laid out the 3/4" mark (from the bottom,correct?)Just curious of how you did this. How thick is your 9’6"? If you were going to do the same bottom on a 9’0" which blank would you choose? I appreciate your input. Where is Jim Phillips? Tom>>> I can’t say I’m the expert yet, but I used Clark’s 9’8"S for my > 9’6" Noserider. I gave it 50/50s and a mild roll on bottom. I made > two bands starting 16 inches up from tail (I wanted a little bite around > the fin, so there’s no roll there). I made the first band 2 inches wide > (from rail), second was also 2 inches wide. With blending, the roll was a > natural result from the taper down to the rails. Though I could be doing > it wrong, I made my first band cut angle down to about 3/4-inch from the > surface (at the rail). Then I bisected that angle with the second band, > then blended. I did the same on deck and bottom, except the taper is more > gradual on bottom.>>> Hope that wasn’t too confusing. Maybe the old salts could clarify how it > was done back in the day? Am I doing it authentically?..deeb…

Steve: I’m calling a 50/50 rail one that might be found on an old/or retro longboard. Taking the profile mid-rail and bisecting it with a lateral line the rail would appear as two identical arcs meeting at the midline (mirror image). Now as for the other references, I was lost until I ordered a board from D.Takayama once. He filled me in on it. I walked in and he asked me if I wanted 60/40 or 70/30 type rails. Take the same mental drawing above and look at it again. the 60/40 will have the same bisecting line midway through the rail but the top arc will fall below the midline and at a steeper angle to the bottom arc. (combo of a tucked under edge and railband?) The 70/30 is a hard edged, high performance longboard rail, maybe a little boxy. I’d like to see more posts to this thread, the more input the better. Tom.>>> I always here people say 50/50 rails and so forth. What does each 50 stand > for. What kind of rail would be 60/40 etc?>>> Lets here the creative answers.

I’ve heard bodyboard rails being referred to as 60/40. With bodyboards the bottom half of the rail is 60 while the top is 40. I guess it’s reversed with surfboards? I think “Y” (Tom Morey) uses the bodyboard type rail on his boards.

I always here people say 50/50 rails and so forth. What does each 50 stand > for. What kind of rail would be 60/40 etc?>>> Lets here the creative answers. Steve,0 Rail proportions (60/40 70/30 etc.) are measurements of a wise@$$ pro’s ability to make fun of novice shapers. Find the mid-board rail line. Project horizontal lines from the deck and bottom past the rail. Measure from the rail line vertically to the deck. Then measure from the rail line to the bottom. Rail proportion is the deck measurement over the bottom measurement. However, on a crowned deck, where does the deck end, and the rail begin? Would the deck measurement go to a projection from the top of the stringer? …from a point 3 inches from the rail? Oh wait! … I know! Which ever measurement the amateur chooses…IT’S THE OTHER ONE! I get kinda tired of this bluff… -Noodle

Deeb:>>> Describe a little more how you laid out the 3/4" mark (from the > bottom,correct?)Just curious of how you did this. How thick is your > 9’6"? If you were going to do the same bottom on a 9’0" which > blank would you choose? I appreciate your input. Where is Jim Phillips?>>> Tom I made and used the tool Peter Rijk suggested, I simply call it “The Right Angle” tool (see diagrams). I simply drilled a hole in one side of this right angle at the appropriate measurement. Then stuck a pen through the hole, dragged the “tool” along the board’s outline, and thus marked a line to follow for the full length of my cut. I had to be careful not to gouge too deep with the pen’s point. When I planed, it took me a few passes to carve down to it, but I ended up with a fairly smooth, dependable line. The marker line worked excellent for the center section of the board, but I had to kinda eye-ball it towards the thinner parts of my foil. I just tried to measure often to make sure my rail’s edge would be consistent in thickness and had no abrupt changes. My board is 3 1/4" thick. I believe my blank was 3 3/8", so I didn’t shave much off (in the center section at least). For a 9’0", it would depend on how thick you want it, but I think the 9’1"Y would be great, since it’s actually 9’3" long and gives a little room for error. If you really want a true, specialized noserider, order this blank with reverse rocker.

I understand proportions, beveling an so on. I just don’t understand which percentage the fist number refers to. You can’t go wrong saying 50/50–it is just equal to top equals bottom rail. See, if I go to Noodle to get a board shaped, I have to worry when I say 60/40 or 40/60, becuase I don’t know if he is a pro or ameteur and he doesn’t know if I know what I am talking about. So, if I think he is an am. and he thinks I know what I am talking about or what if we both don’t know what we are talking about, then I’ll get a 40/60 or a 60/40???Perhaps it is best to show a cross section of the rail!!! ShhhaaakkkkKKKK!!! Just joking a bit, but would like to know the answer. Rusty Rusty come out where ever you are—you are probably iin India getting the best deal on child labor for your shirts to sell for $50 dolllars!!!And while you are in the Chinese Cat House children in Indonesia are fighting each other for a Rusty shirt. Not to mention mothers in the Arizona swap meest are buy t-shirts for everyone in their family including there chihuahua!!! Am I jealous???No, but you(Rusty) could share some knowledge to us kooks!!!Well, I’ve seen you at Wind-N-Sea sipping your Geratal…How about some tips. And please no talk about the groundless C-5 idea…jib fin…It is not snowboarding, in ain’t Kayaking and it ain’t sailing!!! Rusty, what is a 50/50 rail? Oh I got it guys. A fifty fifty is a rail that the grunt shaper shapes on Rusty’r boards and Rusty gets 50 percent and the shaper gets fifty cents for. The 60 forty is the rail Rusty lighty rubs his hands down and so he gets 60 percent and the grunt gets 40 cents. Oh, that is how the shaping thing works. I guess that is why shaping machine will take over—ONLY FOR THOSE WHO LIKE COOKIE CUTTER BOARDS!!! woooo, I can now go to bet now that all my frustration is worked out. I should only have a few nightmares about people not paying up, about the resin geling too quick, and about that video “Liquid Stage” when they say, take a wave, give a wave…sounds so civilized but in my dreams all I hear is "Go back to the mainland!? I think I will go have some more Poi!!!

My two cents… I’ve always thought of it as where the apex of the rail is vertically in relation to the thickness. I think it should be looked at as a general term, since crowned decks and rolled bottoms make exactness difficult or impossible. It cannot be consistent throughout, functional thickness and foil don’t lend themselves to consistent measurements, but smooth transitions. 50/50 = apex in mid-rail. 60/40 = apex below (from deck) mid-rail. 70/30 = apex low on rail… generally - since depending where you are on the board the apex can change. Examp - the front third of a typical shortboard can be close to 50/50 while the rear third can easily be a hard 70/30 or lower. I’ll shut up now in hope that someone can say this more clearly. Eric

Eric: Me thinks you got it! It is all relative and you have to consider that we aren’t working on flat slabs of foam with uniform thickness and dimensions. Kinda like putting cabinets in sailboats, gotta go with what looks and feels good. Thanks for your 2 cents. Tom.>>> My two cents… I’ve always thought of it as where the apex of the rail is > vertically in relation to the thickness. I think it should be looked at as > a general term, since crowned decks and rolled bottoms make exactness > difficult or impossible. It cannot be consistent throughout, functional > thickness and foil don’t lend themselves to consistent measurements, but > smooth transitions. 50/50 = apex in mid-rail. 60/40 = apex below (from > deck) mid-rail. 70/30 = apex low on rail… generally - since depending > where you are on the board the apex can change. Examp - the front third of > a typical shortboard can be close to 50/50 while the rear third can easily > be a hard 70/30 or lower.>>> I’ll shut up now in hope that someone can say this more clearly. Eric

Yep, I think Eric nailed it.>>> Eric:>>> Me thinks you got it! It is all relative and you have to consider that we > aren’t working on flat slabs of foam with uniform thickness and > dimensions. Kinda like putting cabinets in sailboats, gotta go with what > looks and feels good. Thanks for your 2 cents.>>> Tom.

I think that is the straight poop. But you can actually come up with a good accurate ratio even with domed decks. The reason some shapers use domed decks is because the want a lower and sharper rail-line—so I think it is ok to use the thickness at the stringer for the calculation of the rail % at the top and bottom rail, ie 50/50. It is just difficult to imagin saying 70/30 for a short-board rail, but the truth is da truth. And ver true, the rail does vary especially in the nose and tail sections. But he truth is, the rail line is pretty proportion through 80 percent of the board. Steve PS. Thumbs up to Eric and other contributors…it is all good

Thanks for the props folks. Now - I’d better try to shape something this weekend. (retread of a 7’2’ x 23" x 4"thick, morphing into a 6’8"-10" x 22" X 3" fish… I hope)>>> PS. Thumbs up to Eric and other contributors…it is all good

Nice to hear the tool works for ya. Keep shaping. Peter Rijk.>>> I made and used the tool Peter Rijk suggested, I simply call it “The > Right Angle” tool (see diagrams). I simply drilled a hole in one side > of this right angle at the appropriate measurement. Then stuck a pen > through the hole, dragged the “tool” along the board’s outline, > and thus marked a line to follow for the full length of my cut. I had to > be careful not to gouge too deep with the pen’s point. When I planed, it > took me a few passes to carve down to it, but I ended up with a fairly > smooth, dependable line. The marker line worked excellent for the center > section of the board, but I had to kinda eye-ball it towards the thinner > parts of my foil. I just tried to measure often to make sure my rail’s > edge would be consistent in thickness and had no abrupt changes.>>> My board is 3 1/4" thick. I believe my blank was 3 3/8", so I > didn’t shave much off (in the center section at least). For a 9’0", > it would depend on how thick you want it, but I think the 9’1"Y would > be great, since it’s actually 9’3" long and gives a little room for > error. If you really want a true, specialized noserider, order this blank > with reverse rocker.