shaping a marko blank

What’s up?

 

  I got my hands on some 6’8’’ marko blanks, and I’m worried about the sanding process.  These are my first boards.  Power tools aren’t my ordeal, but I can get access to a quality power plane if needed.  I did a forum search and didn’t find anything on marko blanks related to what I want to know.  Anyways the density is 1.9 in whatever units it’s measured in.

 

Would a hand plane be the right move?  The board is a good amount thicker than what i want it to be.  I’m pretty sure its 3 and a quarter inches thick, and I’m looking to thin them out to around 2.5 inches.  That’s a lot of foam to remove without a power plane, and I’m trying to keep it precise as possible.  Or would sandpaper give a better result?  I know I need to finish it with fine sandpaper anyways.  What grit sandpaper?  Do I need to do it in more than two stages(rough and finish sand)?  Am I going to have to make my own set of calipers?  

 

I don’t have any experience in shaping, but I’m fairly handy with tools and stuff, but like I said earlier I would rather not use a power plane.  Any help will be greatly appreciated, I’m stoked to start this project…

Get a planer.

I don’t want to question the delivery of your response because you did answer a bunch of my questions, but I got another one.  I can youtube how to use a planer and I guess I gotta deal with it… but I’m still not quite sure about the fine sanding after planing.  All the answers I’ve seen seem to conflict, so much so that I don’t feel confident enough to make a decision about what grit sandpaper to use without getting a direct response in here.  I’ve heard 100 grit works great, but i’ve seen many people say they go a lot higher than that.  I’ve heard 80 is perfect and I’ve heard it tears up EPS foam.  Do you mind clearing that up for me?  One thing I can get out of this, is that I’ve been looking into the minute steps of shaping for a good amount of time, and however much research I do, things like this are there to remind me that I still have no idea what I’m doing.  Oh yeah and this project means a lot to me, but I’m sure you understand

60 Grit is faster and you can block out the shape. The problem with 100 Grit is you will make lumps because you tend to just smooth them over. Learn how to block sand. 60 is better than 100.

Your foam should not tear? Maybe the old construction billets?

However since I switched to molded eps I don’t even have to Spackle anymore.

Shape your board and have fun with it. If you mess up so what?

The early Greeks valued experienced knowledge to be far more superior to book knowledge.

Experience is the best teacher.

Kind regards,

surfding

Of course I’m going to have fun shaping the board.  That was very informative thank you very much.  I’ll be proud of whatever I make, I’ve just put too much time and effort into this to risk messing up horribly.  Even if that happens I have more than one board to work with and also a backup plan so I won’t beat myself up over it.  Anyways block sanding seems fairly simple, it just takes long even strokes.  I have a good eye for unevenness.  Thanks again

Use a surfoam tools for basic shaping. Than 60 grit on a hard block.

Electric Planner

Sureform

40 grit

60 grit

Fred Tool

Screen Cloth

Sharp hand planes

Sharp spoke shave

Pencil Sharpener

1 liter of pure H2O in Glass not Plastic.

from one shaping kook to another:

  • use the planer. accuracy is where the planer excels.

  • higher grit paper (EDIT: oops, i meant lower grit paper. ie. rougher) will work on the Marko foam but, i found that these: http://www.foamez.com/pleskunas-sanding-block-3-p-182.html work better. they won’t work on the stringer at all but on the foam, they are awsome.

  • make calipers, you’ll need them. they are super easy. if you make your template from masonite, you can use some scrap and a bolt / wingnut for a cheap and easy pair.

  • update your profile. where are you located? betcha there’s someone near you that could help you out one on one.

I think I’ve secured myself a power plane.  I’m trying not to spend much on tools; I think I can make due with sanding block, and 40/60 grit sandpaper.  I’d rather take the surform out of the equation.  From what I’ve read, a screen cloth does not mix well with EPS and sandpaper works just fine.  I have plenty of scrap masonite lying around, I still haven’t cleaned up my template making area.  I was thinking the exact thing about using it for calipers, but its nice to read it on here.  Now I have an electric utility sharpener just sitting in a box in my garage, that should be perfect for sharpening up the planer blades.

 

Right now I’m working on a shaping rack.  I am just cutting up some 2x4 that is sitting in my barn and making it into that flared U shape.  Then I’m going to staple some old towel to the wood where the board will sit.  It’s an old trick I learned from storing sailboats on wooden racks for the winter, and I figure it will work here.  And I have a work bench that it can be clamped to pretty securely.  The miter saw I have scares the crap outta me haha

It's good you decided to use a planer, that's going to be by far the best way to reduce blank thickness by 3/4''. Be careful if you look at youtubes for your planer technique, there's some horrible examples on there. Try to find one of a legit pro shaper and ignore/laugh at the rest. The best thing to do would be to get Jim Phillips' vid.

Somewhere on here I wrote a quick explanation of skinning/thicknessing passes, but I don't recall the thread...

Have fun!

Yeah my understanding for all planers is that you hold them at like a 30-45 degree angle to the cutting path.  Also have the passes bow outwards in the middle of the board and come back in again by the nose.  I assume the one I’m getting is 1/4 inch, so I need to make 3 passes total.  

 

I’ve never actually used a planer, so I assume I should adjust the depth to 1/4’’ for the first cut.  Once I get a strip of foam planed, to keep the level even I would then adjust the depth to 0’’ to finish the rest of the deck?    And since I’m making 3 passes, I should do 2 on top and 1 on bottom?  Sorry if my idea of how a planer works is way off

If you can practice on a scrap first it would help to get started. When you get to your blanks, do your first cuts off the bottom because it's flat and will be easy to ''follow'' with the tool. After you finish your first set of passes, some cleanup may be needed (until you get the hang of it). You could run the planer back and forth near zero cut to block out the high spots or just block and sandpaper. Then go to second set of passes, and so on. If you're shaping in some rocker, you'll need to do some fade or stagger cuts, then clean-up full length passes over them.

Most planers are going to cut 1/8'' max. Cutting 1/4'' passes with the big tools is not for beginners!

Do the blanks have stringers?

I’ve done quite a few EPS blanks without a power planer. I use several types of surforms. One has a flat blade, one has a convex blade and I have the shorter ones as well. The convex blade surform is a great way to get rid of foam fast. Just make long strokes from nose to tail or tail to nose to keep it even. Rasps and graters work really well for taking a lot of foam off. The only part that would be a problem is the stringer. For that you need a couple of small block planes. For the stringers I use a really small stanley plane, a bigger hand plane and a plane that uses one sided razor blades.

2 x 4 blocks with belt sander media cleans things up nicely. You can even go with just the 2 x 4 sanding blocks, but the surform or rasp will take the foam down much faster. Get some drywall screens and foam pads to finish off the blank. You can get the Marko foam to look as smooth as PU.

Be sure to have good lighting to see the bumps, flats and curves clearly. I think having good lighting is really important to making nice boards. Also take your time, stop to see how things are looking and clean up the bad spots before moving on. I don’t have a good place to work, so I tend to power through and try to get things done as fast as I can. I often try to get a board done in a weekend (shaped and glassed), and it’s not as good as it could be.

I don’t know of planers (cheap kind) that can do 1/4" cut. Mine will do 1/8" max. and 3/16" max. I wouldn’t be going for the max cut if I never used a power planer before. I would go until I get it close, but leave enough foam to smooth things out. If I have to cut more than a 1/4" off I use the power planer. Sometimes I have to cut a lot of foam, like and inch or more because I don’t use premade blanks, that’s when I like the power planer. They are also really good for skinning PU blanks. 

Guys, your responses have been instrumental in getting me started on this project.  I wouldn’t be ready to start this weekend at all if you all didn’t help me.  Thank you very much.

 

Ok, so right now I got a Makita 1900b from like 1990.  I’ve looked it up, and its a decent planer, especially because it was free.  Some guys around here use them.  It’s never been used so I don’t have to worry about the bearings kicking out on me.  It supposedly can cut up to 11/32.  Each turn of the knob is 1/16 of an inch, but thats not a problem, I don’t want or need to adjust the rocker.  I also took out the blades and sharpened them on a whetstone.

Right now my plan is to practice on an old cheap boogeyboard that’s been sitting in my garage.  It’s not the same foam, but it’s better than nothing.  On the first pass I’m going to mess up purposely, and the second one I plan to clean it up.  That way I can get some kind of idea how things go wrong, learn how to fix it, and figure out how to use it at the same time.  Tomorrow I should get my workbench finished up, and then I should have the outline cut out by then.  I figure I’ll use this thread to document my progress now

If you just sharpened the blades, I just go straight to the blank and take 1/8" bites. You’ll have plenty of foam to get your feel. Using a totally different foam and size of board won’t help you much, and it may not be good for the planer. Every type of foam reacts differently and will cut smooth or tear at different speeds (how fast your moving forward or backward). If it tears, you’ll have to take it down more to get it smooth.

Start on the bottom and see how each cut may leave a high or low spot compared the next. Go slowly over the stringer. The planer is just to take more foam away faster/easier, so cut shallow to get the feel. There are great shaping videos on Youtube. Watch a couple of the ones that have the shaper explaining what he’s doing. It will save you a lot of grief.

I’ve found that if the EPS foam gets inside the planer vent it will melt and cause all kinds of bad things. Try to keep the vents clear of foam. I use a vacuum attachment. If the EPS gets into the area where your belt is, same thing, it will melt and can cause your belt to fail. It happened to me.

The foam on the scrap board is actually beady and planes really well, aside from the massive flex it has.  It has more to do with me getting accustomed to the planer, because frankly I couldn’t even get it to cut the first try I had.  I was able to get a pretty even area by the end though, and managed to reduce the appearance of tracks significantly.  I doubt I did enough mowing to cause any problems, but thanks for the heads up; I’ll work on putting a vac attachment on it.  Just a regular wet/dry vac should work, right?  And one last question, in theory, if I run the planer along the foam, if I start the cut with the rear plate on the foam instead of starting the front plate on the foam, I’m not going to cut away any foam that is at the level of the rear plate, am I?  To rephrase this in more comprehensible terms, if I run the planer back and forth repeatedly along the same path without adjusting cutting depth, am I going to remove any more foam after the initial cut?  

 

Right now I need to get the blades aligned perfectly and all should go well.

The Planer would need to be on the front plate to cut, but you can run it backwards and cut. 

A shop vac with a long hose and an attachment to stick to your planer is what you need. I’m not familiar with your planer, but I found a 90 degree PVC pipe connector at the hardware store that fits my planer and then I stick the hose onto that. The hose points up instead of out and I find that is better.

I cut a piece of old screen to fit over the intake, and taped it on to keep too much EPS foam dust from getting sucked into the planer.

I got a hose extender and a pvc pipe connecter to attach it.  That’s a great idea, thanks.  I’m gonna set it up so the hose hangs from above me, probably from a rope, which should work well with the 90˚ pipe connector.

I just cut out a blank.  The saw was hard to cut with so I played it save and stayed way outside the outline, and used a surform to take it down to size, then cleaned up with a sanding block.  No trouble with tearing the foam at all with the surform.  It caught on the foam about 100 times but I wasn’t gripping it hard enough to do any damage; it just fell out of my hand each time.  It looks great; nowhere near what some of you guys would call perfection but right now I’m very happy with it.  The rail line looks very clean and for the most part its 90˚.  I ran into a little trouble at the tail of the board getting the rails at 90˚, but I plan to fix that once I plane the bottom of it; it should make the slightly off angle less pronounced.  I also plan to square up the board once I plane it.  

 

The shape is pretty unconventional I think; it’s an egg but its short, and low nose rocker.  I like how it looks, lets hope it surfs well.  Thanks again guys; I’m enjoying this a lot more because your help has drastically reduced my stress level about screwing it up.  It feels great to see it take shape and watch it start to resemble a surfboard more and more

 

 

Hang the power cord with the vacuum hose and that will keep everything out of the way. 

Not sure how you plan on doing rails, but I don’t like square edges. I like a slight bit of curve below. See “tucked under edge”  for examples. In the nose I use a turned up rail that transitions into a tucked under edge rail. I’ll have a hard sharp edge in the tail sometimes, but it’s a turned down rail and not a square. I think it’s just a throw back to the 70’s style boards we rode, otherwise it’s all tucked under for me.

Good luck.