Shaping for (real) dummies. or, Rocker. the hard way

RafisGarage · February 16, 2010, 9:36pm

Week 3, when things got complected…

We decided to copy the rocker off of my 5’ 8" Hybrid fish ( by Hani surfboards) using a method I picked up on Stephen Pirsch website: “how to build your first surfboard” http://www.surfersteve.com/design.htm

Here are the steps, the first one doesn’t require a picture, take off the fins.

here are the pictures for the rest of the steps:

Finally we cut the template out with a jigsaw, sureformed it and sanded it as with the template outline.

it was now that we realized we made two big mistakes:

we had marked the rocker in the middle of the board and not along the rails making the template thicker than the blanks(!)
only after we made the template did we realize that my board has a nose rocker of 80mm and a tail rocker of 40mm while the blank was only 70mm thick.

so it was back to drawing board, two weeks passed by the computer, on aku shaper, youtube, gmail and of course swaylocks trying to figure out if a nose rocker of 60mm was workable and should we try to increase the rocker on the blank or get a new blank.

over these two weeks we thought about bending the foam or gluing on extra foam on the nose. finally we chose gluing foam, which I know is not the best way to go about it but switching blanks was not an option and bending is (for now) too complected.

wow! this was a long post, pictures from the most interesting week yet the minute I get a chance to upload them.

Good night

RafisGarage · February 16, 2010, 9:42pm

In the last post I forgot to thank surfdig for his help on bending foam, I’m sorry man I just couldn’t figure out how to do it.

I also forgot one more thing, but now I seem to have forgotten it again, so if it’s someone I should thank, I thank you unknown shaper.

too tired… good night

mudybech · February 16, 2010, 11:33pm

Great post Rafi!! I love see a good build thread. Take your time on every step and make it your best board ever!!

https://deepcreekmudybech.wordpress.com/

surfding · February 16, 2010, 11:54pm

Keep this post a live long enough and I will add photos and maybe some video of how I approch rocker and make a blank for you as an example. However It will be out of XPS which the same methods apply. Many guys on swaylocks hate XPS but I have a storage unit full of it so that's what I'll use.

The Key with you is you go for it! You have soul. If you are ever in California you are more than welcome to come to the shop and hang out. The last few weeks we keep improving the shop and trying to get things really dialed. It seems you can never be good enough so you always have to work on it. That could be why shaping is so fasinating? You only get better with each board you make. I've made over 4,000 boards and I still improve with each one I do. As long as each board is better than the one before just keep plowing them out. If you hit a snag no big deal. Back up a bit and review your steps. I think if you look at Dave Parmeters instruction you will be off to a good foundation. This is a good one even though a few haters bashed him a few years ago here on Sways the guy is good and I respect his talents:

http://www.surfline.com/gear/how-to-shape/

Rusty endorses him as well.

Don't forget to keep all your Blades Sharp on your hand planes.

Always put your sanding blocks in the same place and don't waste movement!

Welcome to the wonderful world of shaping!

Surfding

RafisGarage · February 17, 2010, 8:54am

Thanks for the post! it made my day!

I will look into Dave’s instructions when I have some time off work and school

Pura Vida

RafisGarage · February 17, 2010, 9:16am

Hi,

Today a little side track post.

everyone here is so helpful in this thread and through out Sway’s yet all the tips are workable in the US and Canada or Europe.

I will now try to help with some tips for backyard shapers from my home country: Israel, regarding tools.

First off: Electric planer - I had a lot of thoughts if I should buy one or not as it’s an expensive tool for someone who is uncertain on the amount of board he’s about to shape. Bosch and Makita planers cost around 900NIS and Hyundai cost around 600NIS and that’s just too much. luckily a good friend of mine who’s into guitar building (and here I thought shaping was hard) suggested a 950W electric planer by Expert which is only 200-300NIS in Home center, sure it’s a little Toys’r’us instrument but it get’s the job done and I havn’t had too much difficulty rigging a vacuum cleaner to it, just tear the supplied waste baggie off the specialized connector and you will find a round hole perfect for a vacuum hose. here it is:

now, about sureforms surprisingly sureforms are available in every hardware dept store, they are not the robust tools you see in shaping forums like Sway but as you will see they get the job done.

Sanding screens and calipers I could not find. I will probably get some sanding screens from a pro shaper friend and build my own calipers, or I will order both online.

And of course, the hardest product to find: Blanks.

Polyurethane close tolerance blanks are too expensive to order online to Israel and can only be found if you have a shaper friend, and even then they are too expensive for a beginner who might ruin the blank, like me.

EPS blanks are easier to find in block form, most factories will make you by large amounts and if you insist on only one or two blocks they will be quite expensive, around 400NIS. again having a shaper friend helps getting EPS blocks cheaper (wink wink)

close tolerance EPS is something I thought did not exist in Israel until I started this thread but thanks to Lee_Jordan I know you can got some from him in Haifa. noted for my next board.

That’s it, enough side tracking. more building pictures coming up.

Pura Vida

RafisGarage

Lee_jordan · February 17, 2010, 10:23am

Surfding- 10x for the link, it's been a long and fun read . I just came back home from a bar last night.

while drinking my beers I like to grab a piece of paper and write down all

the steps of my upcoming surfboard so when I come to actually do them I will not forget any step ,

specially because I now focus on crazy glass jobs which need to be planned ahead.

so.. as I said.. I came from the bar and found the link you posted , and it felt like I'm reading my own notes..

I slept so good and dreamed of funny curves and freaky super glossed tint jobs. thanks.

RafisGarage- as for the planner you bought , I sugest you modify it and make a better shaping tool out of it.

1) cut the handle off and re-position it in a more comfortable angle ( tons of info in the archives)

2) remove any extra un-needed parts and grind the belt cover to get more clearence

this is neccesary for the tighter curves , such as the nose ( deck side ) .

3) you might be able to modity the depth mechanism so you could control the depth of the cut on-the-fly.

that's the whole deal with shaping with an electric planer.

good luck friend, I like your post btw, reminds me how I started.

and from now on I call you Rafi :)

Lee

RafisGarage · February 18, 2010, 2:09pm

ok ok, we are almost at the weekend which means tomorrow it’s back to the shaping bay ( as long as I get the stupid assignment for school one in time) and I still owe you the photos from the final week of work we’ve done so far, and the most critical one: Week 4!

this week we printed a new rocker from akushaper and decided to mold it in. we had long discussions about building a hot wire, it’s quite easy to build one and resources are easy to find online (for all you Hebrew googler’s try the search term: קשת חיתוך).

but time was running out and the weekend has arrived.We decided not to wait and go on shaping innsted of building a hotwire just right now, it might have been a rushed decision, see the pictures and judge for yourselves.

and so, after four hours of planing and sanding we had a blank with a bottom rocker. we could have waited another week, build a hot wire and hot wired it in minutes or, if we were living in the US, order one by mail but we had to get it done, so we did.

one last thing left to do, as I posted before, he had to glue extra foam to reach the desired rocker, we left this work for next week when we hope to finish the bottom rocker, make the deck rocker and cut the outline. here is a picture of the glued on piece being prepped for next week:

the two questions before we go back to work tomorrow are:

should we cut the outline before we finish molding the bottom rocker into the excess foam and make the deck rocker or vice versa
any thoughts on the best way to mold in the rocker into this piece? the only way I saw was hotwire which we don’t have, yet.

that’s it, I’ve uploaded all we’ve done so far and tomorrow we shape so I hope to have more pics for you soon.

I want to finish this post with a big thank you to Art at bcsurfing forum for this great post on gluing foam to gain more rocker from thin blanks: http://bcsurfing.dyndns.org/viewtopic.php?t=79

Pura Vida

RafisGarage

kensurf · February 18, 2010, 3:06pm

rafi

this is most excellant!

useing what you got ,,, I love it!! (McGyver)

I would leave as much foam on as possible before you cut the outline

I dont see a stringer in that blank

after you get the rocker done put the stringer in

then do the out line

RafisGarage · February 18, 2010, 3:17pm

Thanks for the reply Ken

this is an EPS stringerless board (well blank for now) we might use some carbon for strength before laminating

do you think we should stringer it?

kensurf · February 18, 2010, 3:24pm

do you think we should stringer it?

Rafi

At 5.8" that may be a good idea

but If you can "I beem" it with carbon fiber down the center top and bottom

it should be farely snap resistant and you dont want too much flex

first board,,,, just do what you can ,, practice for the next one ,, make it better,, learn as you go!

sharkcountry · February 18, 2010, 9:02pm

No need for a stringer. I have a 5-8 stringerless board. I used 2 layers of 4 oz glass on the bottom 2 layers of 6 oz on the top. Give it a big lap on both sides and it will be strong. I taper the bottom edge a little where the wrap will be to keep the bottom flat after all the glassing. Just run a block of sandpaper along the bottom edge a little to give you breathing room for the wide laps. I also make the first layer wider than the top layer to help from having a thick layer of glass to sand down. Most other guys cut the first layer along the rail line, I make it at least 2 -3 inches past, then I cut the next layer an inch or so shorter.

You could have made a hot wire to cut down the blank. It’s a lot easier and there’s less to clean up off the floor and walls.

Lee_jordan · February 19, 2010, 12:21am

I'm with Sharkcountry on this one.

definatly no need for a stringer!

I made a bunch of stringerless boards , all eps and all @ about 2.5" thickness.

I went as short as 5'4 and the longest I think was a 6'9 or so,

double 6oz deck , single 6 bottom . strong as hell , stiff enough and light.

mitchfromoz · February 19, 2010, 6:39am

If he used a stringer, wouldnt he have been able to put the extra rocker needed into it
rather than having to glue on extra pieces ?
Can you bend EPS ?

I know thats how you glue up PU, I have done it hundreds of times,

But when I make EPS core boards, I hotwire then exactly to the stringer I need from huge blocks, So I havnt had to experement,

It seemed he only needed an extra half inch or so,
and I bent PU much much much more than that,
to match a stringer/rocker…

So, I guess a good question is:

How much can you bend EPS without it snapping ?

.

Lee_jordan · February 19, 2010, 10:14am

" How much can you bend EPS without it snapping ?",

It's a good question with no real answer. say you're gluing up an EPS blank out of 10 sheets , 1/4" thickness each.

each sheet could bend a lot without snapping.

take a 2.5" sheet and you'll notice it will bend just a bit before it snaps.

RafisGarage · February 23, 2010, 11:01am

Been a few hard days at work. Now Finally I have time to upload the pictures from last weekend.

so this time we planed the deck rocker pretty much the same way we did the bottom rocker, not much to see. and finally the big moment has arrived, marking and cutting out our first board, ever!

This is while marking the critical points at 1’ for the nose, the wide point and 1’ from the tail. this was extra crucial as we wanted to take the wide point 1" thicker than our template. what we did as mark run along the template up to the first point, then spun the template a bit to reach the wide point we marked and ran along it to the wide point, then spun the template again to the original 1’ from the tail point we marked. this is how it came out

There is nothing like the rush of creating something yourself for the first time, smoking anxiously like a dad outside the devilry room, we finally calmed down and cut it out, and when the edges of the blank separated from the board, a surfboard was born!

now the real work begins.

MikeDaniel · February 23, 2010, 1:07pm

What a great thread! The thrill of doing your first board just oozes out of your posts. Every shaper, garage or pro, remembers their first board; and accounts like this bring back those memories for all of us.

A few tips:

Clean up your outline completely before you finish the foiling and turn the rails. Don't leave a bump and think you'll shape it out in the rails.

Do the bottom rail bands first, use a sanding block ( best for first shape, but try your planer on some of your scraps for future reference).

Spend some time getting the primary deckside band just right before doing all the secondary bands, it will make the rest of rail shaping much easier.

Surforms and screen aren't really the best tools on EPS. Sanding blocks and sandpaper work better.

RafisGarage · February 23, 2010, 2:33pm

Thanks for your reply,

we are pretty stoked to be shaping for ourselves and can’t wait to ride our own boards.

I think all this excitement has a down side though, we are already making mistakes because we rush things, the biggest tip I’ve learned so far is patience, must exercise more of it!

visited your website, didn’t quite understand the tech but it looks pretty cool, nice shapes very hi-tech, liked it even though I’m more of a retro person myself. must be cold surfing in Jesy hope you guys have some good wetsuits.

Pura Vida

Rafi

Lee_jordan · February 23, 2010, 8:11pm

Aloha brother,

nice job . definatly shaping "the hard" way , but you know what, you learn so much from the "the hard way"

and try so many diffrent technics , it's actually worth it for the long run.

I have a suggestion -

finish your shape, see how it goes and what's the end result.

since the glass job + fins etc are the most expancive in making a board , if you're not 100% sure about

the finished shape , I want to offer you a real good fish blank , proven low rocker that just "flies" in our kind of waves.

I can even cut you a perfect , clean and prepandicular outline ( from a realy nice and retro template I got) .

since you get a clean rocker/foil and outline , it'll give you a very good starting point for a clean shape + I'll give you

a few shaping tips.

PM me if your interested , I'll give it to you at the same price I give it to production shapers.

Lee.

Btw,

Thursday the swell is picking up , somt about 7 meters... this means the reefs in Haifa will give at least 3 meter faces.

see you there :)

MikeDaniel · February 23, 2010, 10:48pm

[quote="$1"]

visited your website, didn't quite understand the tech but it looks pretty cool, nice shapes very hi-tech, liked it even though I'm more of a retro person myself. must be cold surfing in Jesy hope you guys have some good wetsuits.

[/quote]

Don't worry about not understanding our tech, nobody does.... Thanks for looking at the site.

But..... We're in Florida, USA. The .dealer in that piece, No Flat Earth, is in New Jersey. And they do have good wetsuits.

What kind of retro boards (other than fish) do you like? This is the place to come to find out about those things, plenty of us rode them all the first time around.

Slow down and think before each step on your shape, glass, and finish. Keep on having fun!