I’ve been talking to a few shapers lately concerning a new board. One was Gary Linden in SoCal and was surprised to find out that he uses a shaping machine to rough out his boards, even custom. It seems a lot of mid-large sized shapers are going this route. Is this good or bad? In theory, it gets you closer to tolerance and you are able to build a more symmetrical board. In a way, it is today what the planer was many moons ago when it was first invented, another tool, but is something lost in the process? I’m not talking about sole or any of that, but I mean the shaper still finishes the board so in theory it should be an ideal and almost a perfect blend of technology and a hand finished board…or is it? -John
I’ve been talking to a few shapers lately concerning a new board. One was > Gary Linden in SoCal and was surprised to find out that he uses a shaping > machine to rough out his boards, even custom. It seems a lot of mid-large > sized shapers are going this route.>>> Is this good or bad? In theory, it gets you closer to tolerance and you > are able to build a more symmetrical board. In a way, it is today what the > planer was many moons ago when it was first invented, another tool, but is > something lost in the process? I’m not talking about sole or any of that, > but I mean the shaper still finishes the board so in theory it should be > an ideal and almost a perfect blend of technology and a hand finished > board…or is it?>>> -John John, the machine leaves enough room to do corrections in the original design, or in the case of a great program, do as many as one physically can. Also, machines are like human shapers, there sre great ones, KKL and ones that are fret with problems that make machine shaping as teidious as hand shaping.
I’ve been talking to a few shapers lately concerning a new board. One was > Gary Linden in SoCal and was surprised to find out that he uses a shaping > machine to rough out his boards, even custom. It seems a lot of mid-large > sized shapers are going this route.>>> Is this good or bad? In theory, it gets you closer to tolerance and you > are able to build a more symmetrical board. In a way, it is today what the > planer was many moons ago when it was first invented, another tool, but is > something lost in the process? I’m not talking about sole or any of that, > but I mean the shaper still finishes the board so in theory it should be > an ideal and almost a perfect blend of technology and a hand finished > board…or is it?>>> -John There is not nearly the sole in the process. The shaper is now walking 1/4 the distance to finish the blank…
There is not nearly the sole in the process. The shaper is now walking 1/4 > the distance to finish the blank… …A SHORT WHILE AGO;I was talking to a well known shaper@ Basham’s in SanClemente.He said he heard rumors that I was shaping for a big wellknown builder in the surf industry.I told Chris that I was doing some prototypes,but mainly doing clean-ups on CNC shapes… …His answer was; CNC? kind of soulless don’t you think?Herb
There is not nearly the sole in the process. The shaper is now walking 1/4 > the distance to finish the blank… SHOE LEATHER
…A SHORT WHILE AGO;I was talking to a well known shaper@ Basham’s > in SanClemente.He said he heard rumors that I was shaping for a big > wellknown builder in the surf industry.I told Chris that I was doing some > prototypes,but mainly doing clean-ups on CNC shapes…>>> …His answer was; CNC? kind of soulless don’t > you think?Herb …Heart.
It’s good to see you can come out of the salt mines with sense of humor, how goes it? We were wondering where you been. Tom S.>>> There is not nearly the sole in the process. The shaper is now walking 1/4 > the distance to finish the blank…
It’s good to see you can come out of the salt mines with sense of humor, > how goes it? We were wondering where you been.>>> Tom S. From what I understand a chip for a shaping machine runs about $300. The company wants a guaratee of 70 blanks ordered at $35.00 for a 75% shaped blank. If it’s a popular shape that’s in demand I can see the advantage of using a machine, can you as a shaper imagine trying to duplicate the same board over and over.It may have a little less soul, but it’s better than having Surftech do their thing with it. One thing that does irk me is that the shaper is doing only 25% of the work but still charges the full price. I know of 2 very well known shapers here on Kauai that are using the machine that’s on Oahu for their longboard shapes.
From what I understand a chip for a shaping machine runs about $300. The > company wants a guaratee of 70 blanks ordered at $35.00 for a 75% shaped > blank. If it’s a popular shape that’s in demand I can see the advantage of > using a machine, can you as a shaper imagine trying to duplicate the same > board over and over.It may have a little less soul, but it’s better than > having Surftech do their thing with it. One thing that does irk me is that > the shaper is doing only 25% of the work but still charges the full price. > I know of 2 very well known shapers here on Kauai that are using the > machine that’s on Oahu for their longboard shapes. I’d like to get the addresses of the companies that pay shapers full shaping fees for machine shapes. I have companies wanting to give me 15.00 to do their short boards from the machine, I pass. I’ve got so much work that “pays”, it’s ridiculous to waste my time.
I’d like to get the addresses of the companies that pay shapers full > shaping fees for machine shapes. I have companies wanting to give me 15.00 > to do their short boards from the machine, I pass. I’ve got so much work > that “pays”, it’s ridiculous to waste my time. I’m glad this issue was brought up. I have often wondered why once a portion of the process became automated that the price of some of these “name” boards hasn’t come down some. I know here on the EastCoast CI’s and R’s still fetch top dollar even though probably 90% of the boards coming out here are machined, if not all of them. There has been no price reduction on these boards. I don’t have a problem paying for handcrafted boards, I have a problem paying for a machined shape being sold at the handcrafted price.
I’m glad this issue was brought up. I have often wondered why once a > portion of the process became automated that the price of some of these > “name” boards hasn’t come down some. I have thought that since the advent of the programed machine , that the under priced custom shape fee, could be shifted over to the machine price. This leaves the custom shape price the ability to move into a , far more , living wage.
I’d like to get the addresses of the companies that pay shapers full > shaping fees for machine shapes. I have companies wanting to give me 15.00 > to do their short boards from the machine, I pass. I’ve got so much work > that “pays”, it’s ridiculous to waste my time. Jim I am curious as to how much time you actually save on a long board off the machine.The new blanks are just about pre shaped anyway…not at all like what we had to start with in the 60’s.
I’m glad this issue was brought up. I have often wondered why once a > portion of the process became automated that the price of some of these > “name” boards hasn’t come down some. I know here on the > EastCoast CI’s and R’s still fetch top dollar even though probably 90% of > the boards coming out here are machined, if not all of them. There has > been no price reduction on these boards. I don’t have a problem paying for > handcrafted boards, I have a problem paying for a machined shape being > sold at the handcrafted price. The actual cost of the machining is nearly the same as the hand shape. Each model that is scanned is 200.00 and up and to add final insult to injury, we work our F****ing asses off so we can sell boards way too cheap. Entirely hand made products by American craftsmen, using American materials. No one blinks an eye at the Blaupuct stereo for 800.00, snowboard, trunks, food, but somehow along the way, a surfboard just isn’t worth the money. Buy American
Jim I am curious as to how much time you actually save on a long board off > the machine.The new blanks are just about pre shaped anyway…not at all > like what we had to start with in the 60’s. Off of KKL’s machine, I still spend about an hour on a Clark Blank, knock off the knobs at each end, correct for blank relaxation (each blank tries to return to it’s natural rocker during the cutting process), bring stringers down and sand the groves out, tune up and drag the rails, then fine sand. With a Walker blank, the time from rough sand to finish sand is absolutely like butter. On hand shaping, even with the wonderful blanks we have today, everyone has some flaw, whether it be the bulging 9’7"B, humped up center railed 6’11"R, 7’4"R, 8’4"R, 9’9" tortured left rail, complete this with human gluing errors, twists, nicks, crooked stringers. I’ve done 5 hand shape longboards in a day, and I mean a day, like around the clock shaping. If I get a board done in 2 hours, it means everything was right on, single stringer, not phone calls, no interuptions, otherwise 3 hours no problem. Now there is an Oceanside shaper/manufacturer who brags about his 14 minute shapes. Cuts them out with his router, machine sands them, has nice ads, team riders (not Donald if you were wondering) sells a longboard for 289.00, he’ll make it up on volume!! yeh right. How many times does he even look down that blank or engineer a rocker in it.
“Now there is an Oceanside shaper/manufacturer who brags about his 14 minute shapes. Cuts them out with his router, machine sands them, has nice ads, team riders (not Donald if you were wondering) sells a longboard for 289.00, he’ll make it up on volume!! yeh right. How many times does he even look down that blank or engineer a rocker in it.” People who brag about there funky hack jobs really trip me out. If something is worth doing at all, it’s worth doing right. I think I know the boards you mean, file them next to the China Costco boards.
I’m glad this issue was brought up. I have often wondered why once a > portion of the process became automated that the price of some of these > “name” boards hasn’t come down some. I know here on the > EastCoast CI’s and R’s still fetch top dollar even though probably 90% of > the boards coming out here are machined, if not all of them. There has > been no price reduction on these boards. I don’t have a problem paying for > handcrafted boards, I have a problem paying for a machined shape being > sold at the handcrafted price. They have to pay the cost of the machine in some way. For all I (or you) know, the machineshaped boards are better boards. regards, Håvard
I live in Europe (Spain) and i think from here i have a diferent point of view that could be interesting. Think that all of you live in U.S.A. where all the kids (and older surfers to) can buy a new brand surfboard from one of this “great comercial shapers” (All M., Rusty, …Lost, Tokoro, etc…). But here we haven’t this shapers, we have very good shapers, but not that famous, and Slater, Machado, the Lopez brothers, etc, doesn’t ride their boards, and you know that people love to ride a “bad promodel” that doesn’t suit their surfing instead of a good shape from his local shaper, just because “the All Merrick shapes ride the best for everyone… look at Slater!”. So the situation is this: We have thousands of surfers who prefer to pay more to have a “pro model” or just a board from the shapers they read about on the magazines, no matter how this board rides. But this shapers are in USA and only come to Europe (if they come) once a year (maybe a month between France and Spain) and is obvious that in this month they can’t do thousands of boards. So here comes a man that owns a surfboard factory and pays to shapers as All Merrick, Tokoro, etc., they give him the diskettes with the board models and allow to make boards in Europe under the name of their brands (Channel Islands, …Lost, Town & Country, etc). Then people buy “All Merrick’s” that are made in “Pukas factory” and pay 345 US$ for each one. This is happening in Europe and i think this way people is waisting the money and shpaers are ruining their reputation, at least in Europe. Thanks for all your posts guys, i love this forum. Coque. (i’m sorry because my engish is very poor)