Jim, the flex relax can be corrected in the bottom lamination. The flex happens because the denser foam, which is on the outter portion of the blank, is removed. This is, as Jim says, because blanks are flexed from there natural rocker(original blank plug). Another reason is because the stringers are too flexable. Yes, flex is needed in a board, but these flexable stringers lose their “pop”. It is true that the foam loses the pop, but it is the stinger that loses the real pop. Hey guys, we all have to deal with blank relax, or pull back. The truth remains that a profiler is a very economical way to strat the shape of a board. More guys are going to strat using this method. Mark my word on this. The reason, because computer shapes take a while to get from the shaping services and because there is plenty of shaping to be done in finish shaping. So, why not profile, put in the rail bands and finish…
i agree with all of this… i was just hoping to help some to understand the differences in machines, the kind of time/work involved and the finished products that come from them. i dont mean to enforce my opinions they are just my way of thinking and doing. there is many ways to make happy customers and it up to us to keep them that way and provide ourseves with enough work to do that… i shape/design surfboards because i love it! the satified smiles as the customer see,s his new stick and the happy phone calls/emails i get after a couple weeks make it enjoyable! all roads lead to rome… many kinds of wheels travel the road! http://feraldave.com
hello dave, when you are doing a custom order are you able to do away with the planer altogether and produce the customers shape entirely with the CAD tool. or do you treat the machine as mainly a profile foiling tool and put in things like outline and rails curves by hand?
yes i can do without the planer to make a new design now. i can get away with only useing a tail template. i still need to shape the 70% of the rail but the rest we can do on cad style programs. its taking some time to learn but im enjoying it. http://www.feraldave.com
Dave, What is that old saying “you can fool some of the people some of the time but you cant fool all of the people all of the time” KR http://groups.msn.com/MyKRSurf/krcomweb.msnw
thanks Dave, it wasn’t a religeously loaded question, I was genuinely interested in how far the CAD tool can be taken with custom boards
ahh, shape machines…shape machines exist since ´60´s, and still the people don´t like it and also are expensive… so, now are based in computers. I don´t impresed too much, because all the stuff disscused previously…and still I wanna shape by hand, and also want to start to shape balsa shortboards… And for those who use these “incredibles” machines, think: The GLASS still is done by hand!! with all the possible errors… The wave don´t stop and think ohh this board is machine made ohh it´s really perfect…The artisans or the backyarders still are the responsables for the best design…
Whether it be a profiled blank or a complete hand shape, the tooled blank becomes the essence of a machine cut blank. The machine can only give back what was put into it in the first place. My profile machine rocker rails had the nose rockers ready to go, but from about 2 feet up from the tail, I ran the rocker out fairly straight. This allowed me to adjust a long rocker, short near the tail rocker, or what ever I felt was needed for a particular shape
Thats exactly what l do Jim so that you get more of a range out of one rocker, once l do the bottom l then cut out my outline so that l can see the bottom rocker profile and foil, when l do the deck l simply move the blank forward or back, up or down on the machine and use the deckline of the rocker template to get the foil that l want. To some it might sound difficult but to see it in action it is very simple and l recon if you cant even design yourself a basic profile machine then how in the f#%@ can you call yourself a “designer” (in my opinion a word that too many shapers use to describe themselves). l have nothing against people having a go at making boards for themselves or their friends , shit l encourage them to, but l hate these guys coming into the board selling market trying to buy respect by buying surfers backed with advertising to suck the kiddies into beleiving that they really do have a clue, then they turn around and have this attitude that they must be good because l have “JacK Ripper” riding my shapes (even though l pay him to like them). You might say that l’m going a bit overboard here but there are to many guys like l just described in my area and most of them either cant surf or dont surf, MONEY & EGO the root of all evil. Happy jack the hangman -KR- http://groups.msn.com/MyKRSurf/krcomweb.msnw
Dave, There’s been some discussion of the 3 axis cnc shaping machines that use standard cutting heads - do you have any experience with the CET machine? I understand that it uses a sanding drum and rotates the blank.
Hand shaping is the way to go but to replicate rockers and do alot of boards shaping machines and profilers are great.If a person wants a 100% hand shape he / she will go to a 100% hand shaper. I personally just aquired a profiler so my rockers and decks will be profiled on a vast majority of my shapes as soon as I can work out how to use the animal.Any pointers please send them to the punter will buy ? ride what they like / want / what is trendy and what works best, for them. how it is made is up to the manufacturer.
i havent used the CET machine for my own work, i have finshed a few for other companys. i think the concave cutting ability is very limited with it. the company that cuts my blanks at present uses a 3 axis style too, its built here in australia and has a lot in common with the kkl machine, there is another 3 axis machine being built here at present with uses the 3d software that there has been many posts about. im pretty sure if you search the archives you will find a download link to try a demo version of the software. http://www.feraldave.com
I think that computers machine still are only for the bigger or hyper production shaper. The cost´s too high, and not compensate for smaller ones. I think…Most “star” shapers that worked half life making boards (shape) are tired to work mostly by hands …and they ´ll try with machines…Also these shapers surf a little, and do not very well… -Also, the glass work is done by hand.
the incredible thing is that “you” and me still handcrafting boards.in this times of massifications, standarizations, clonations…and the Pro´s board and the average guy board´s got the same type of materials…don´t happend in other industries…
I have seen a CET machine in action. Very impressive and facter than the CNC machines I’ve seen. The one I saw did a blank in 3 minutes. It didn’t cut the bottom, but it did cut all the way down to the bottom rail edge. It wasn’t computerized. It was hand driven and just copied a master.