My fellow Swaylockians,
I am very excited to say that after years of borrowed work space I have built a 10x12 shaping bay in the backyard. The shack is almost complete and I am staring at the 24" spaced 2x4 structure with siding and wondering if I need to insulate (San Diego, CA). I have a pile of Soundboard and Sheet Rock that I was thinking of slapping right onto the studs with an open air space in between studs. Any advise?
R-13 fiberglass batt insulation. Don’t forget the roof. Super cheap considering, and will make a huge difference on both hot days and cold nights. An attic vent in the roof will also add to your comfort, letting the heat out on hot days.
Otherwise, it will be like a car with the windows rolled up on a sunny day. An unvented attic in so cal easily reaches 140 degrees in summertime.
Thanks for the reply. I have the opportunity to purchase R-13 without the kraft face and without a vapor barrier for .20 cents/sq. ft.
Do you believe this would work sandwiched between the siding & soundboard/sheetrock without a vapor barrier?
Put the insulation between the studs then instal sheetrock and soundboard.
Thanks mclamped. The only concern is that moisture will build up and cause mold with the lack of vapor barrier.
No vapor barrier necessary; So Cal not Idaho. Shaping room, not a sauna. Just stuff it in, and it will hold istelf in place until you drywall.
Make sure you buy the 23" wide for 24" stud spacing. The 15" wide is for 16" on stud spacing.
Dust mask is mandatory, glasses too. Not for flying splinters, but the airborn fibers will irritate your eyes. Don’t rub them! Wash your face with cold water afterwards. Gloves and long sleeve shirt is recommended.
Shower immediately after, the itching will tell you why.
By the way, are you putting some sort of waterproofing under the siding? You should. 36" wide building paper. Like roofing paper but lighter. Start on the bottom row. Staples to hold in place until you side it with plywood (exterior grade) or whatever. Paint the plywood siding, or it will peel apart after a year or so.
Excellent help! Damn, that is some mighty fine direction to follow! Thank you everysurfer. I didn’t put waterproofing under the siding because the material was rated for “directly to stud”, is this okay? The siding is exterior primed and painted w/ three coats. The whole frame is built on pressure treated skid raising with 6" of gap from the ground to let air circulate underneath. The eaves are going to be extra long so that the sides don’t take a hit when it rains. I got some rain gutters from an estate sale last week for 30 bucks to carry any water down to the ground and away from the building. Man, oh man, I love me some estate sale!
One thing - don't plan on shaping any longboards in there! It could be done, but you'll go nuts (don't ask me how I know that!) Small spaces get messy real fast when in use!
Mine is 9 x 14, 2x6 studs 24" o.c., r-19 insul. in the stud bays and a double layer in the attic, vents in each gable end. Sheetrocked with 5/8" rock. Windows saved up from many yardsale finds. Window and door trim is old cedar fenceboards.
My man cave - so easy even a caveman could do it!
I just did a job in Pacific Palisades, barely worked because there was a view of Topanga from the kitchen window. Anyway, we used a very thin visqueen sheet plastic that we stapled to the studs after we insulated and before we instaled the drywall as a mosture barrier. I've been a builder since the 80's and that was a first for me, but the owner wanted it and he said that is what he did in Utah. I agree with "everysurfer" it is overkill in southern California.
hahaha - that's a familiar story! Now you know why this little deck took me 4 weeks to build! Be at the beach by 5, in the water by 5:30 or 6, never started work before 9, burned out tired and calling it a day by 3, next day same story. I'm with you and everysurfer, I've always used black builders' paper in so. cal., never had a problem.
My brother builds homes up in coastal Oregon and they use 90 lb. roofing paper!
Does your cave have a flat interior roof with the attic above that in the pitch?
No worries on the longboards, I am only interested in boards under 7’6".
Great feedback everyone!
Thanks for the info. I had never worked with insulation before so I was a bit gun shy.
Where are you referring to use black builders’ paper on the project? I was only going to use it on the roof underneath the shingles.
I used, and pretty much always use it, on the walls prior to sheathing - but you said you had already applied the "direct-to-stud" sheathing, so no biggie, I was just responding to the observation of moisture-barrier like Tyvek or Visqueen being unnecessary in southern california. Its just a shaping shed, finish it up and get some boards started! =)
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Does your cave have a flat interior roof with the attic above that in the pitch?
No worries on the longboards, I am only interested in boards under 7'6".
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Yes - flat ceiling inside. I take lots of pics in there, but had to really search to find one that shows the ceiling. The place is so darned small, when taking pics you just can't see much of the room, cuz you're right on top of the facing wall! BTW, this board is 7'6", the max you can comfortably work on in here. I did rebuild a 9'6" in this room, but it was reallll tight!
Oops. I heard some stories about using visqueen for a vapor barrier. Big problem is consensation. Since it doesn’t breath, moisture is trapped. I heard about a house in a more humid climate that completely rotted within five years. Building paperis only 36" wide, and so it breathes a little at the seams. Tyvek is the best, and it breathes like goretex.
Mclamped, on a better note, Huck and I have been hitting a little unknown reef not too far from the Palisades on most mornings with surf. A good sized swell is on the way. Drop us a PM.
Huckleberry,
You're place is nice. It's so nice I almost said it was cute.
I was sort of thinking about doing something similar. Do you know about how much you spent total to build your place? Also, I was thinking about a little wood burning stove. Does this present a challenge or danger in terms of heating up board building materials?
BTW, I used to be a carpenter in Seattle and the stuff we would do to waterproof a house was amazing to this Southern Californian. Everysurfer has it right: You want the place to breathe or you'll have issues down the line. Tar papers breathe air and moisture. Peace! C
So to appease my compulsive nature:
Is there a concern with moisture build up in the stud area since I didn't use any builders paper? It would be a shame to have mold and tear the thing down. All seams have been caulked with foam insulation spray and it seems fairly impervious to the elements. The floor has a single layer of OSB board with plywood sheet on top.of that.
Put me out of my misery!
I wouldn't put a woodburning stove in a little place like that. Maybe if you have a bigger building? My place is small and well insulated, so a little plug-in space heater makes it toasty real fast, and it stays that way, so you don't have to run it much at all, pretty energy efficient.
I don't recall what I spent. Maybe $3K? Sheesh, I remember when that was just lunch money, hahah. How times have changed! Biggest chunk was hiring a friend to pour the slab - he charged me a bit, but built it like a commercial slab - big footings, rebar, anchor bolts, the whole nine yards. He needed the work at the time, and I had a few bucks back then, so I didn't mind. But I went cheap, mostly. 2x6 framing, but 24" o.c.. 2x4 rafters, because the span was so short. Lap siding on what you see from the house, T-1-11 on the rest. Windows from yardsales. Shingles on the side that faces the house, mineral felt roll-roofing on the other side. Old cedar fenceboards for the trim. Paint leftover from who knows what project. Oh yeah, and I did pay a few bucks for a sparky friend to wire it to code, sub-panel and all, even 'tho I didn't permit it.