A while back, on perhaps a displacement hull thread, I posted that Paul Gross was in the process of building a foam replica of a Simmons spoon, and when finished and ridden, I would post my thoughts/results.Well, here it is: the board is 9’8" and stringerless.( it is made from two walker blanks glued together.it looked like a big hotdog bun unfolded!)I don’t know exact measurements, but it is something like 24" wide,with nose of probably 20" and tail about the same, and VERY parallel rails, with “s” deck and displacement hull bottom.For those of you who have seen pictures of a Simmons or have seen one up close and personal, there is no mistaking that this board is what it is. Glassed in 10 oz. volan the weight is perfect-not too light nor too heavy.We slapped in a 8" Greenogh fin and ventured out into some easy 2’ surf, not sure what to expect-eg, would it pearl? is it even surfable? etc.The first thing you notice is how easy this thing paddles, even through chop.then you can feel the liveliness of the stringerless board as it planes across the texture.Spinning it around to paddle for a wave was easy too, even with it’s wide tail.WEll, anyway so far so good, now the questions are will it catch a wave and how will it surf?As I paddled for the first wave it started out slow,like I was going nowhere, when all of a sudden the thing just takes off and jumps into the wave like it had a motor on it!Get up, turn,set rail and fuckin’ whoosh! gone baby gone!From the moment it motored into the wave i started laughing-then when it hooked up and took off on this 2’ wave I really started laughing!What a feeling! What fuckin’ fun this is-and only on a 2’ roller! I can’t wait to get it into a 4 footer when the point is spinning !I’ll be the one screaming by with his grin peeled back past his ears!!!
…Sound like my first wave on a hollow board…Unexpected surprises…What we all should experience…Keeps life interesting…I’m stoked for you… Paul
A while back, on perhaps a displacement hull thread, I posted that Paul > Gross was in the process of building a foam replica of a Simmons spoon, > and when finished and ridden, I would post my thoughts/results.Well, here > it is:>>> the board is 9’8" and stringerless.( it is made from two walker > blanks glued together.it looked like a big hotdog bun unfolded!)I don’t > know exact measurements, but it is something like 24" wide,with nose > of probably 20" and tail about the same, and VERY parallel rails, > with “s” deck and displacement hull bottom.For those of you who > have seen pictures of a Simmons or have seen one up close and personal, > there is no mistaking that this board is what it is.>>> Glassed in 10 oz. volan the weight is perfect-not too light nor too > heavy.We slapped in a 8" Greenogh fin and ventured out into some easy > 2’ surf, not sure what to expect-eg, would it pearl? is it even surfable? > etc.The first thing you notice is how easy this thing paddles, even > through chop.then you can feel the liveliness of the stringerless board as > it planes across the texture.Spinning it around to paddle for a wave was > easy too, even with it’s wide tail.WEll, anyway so far so good, now the > questions are will it catch a wave and how will it surf?As I paddled for > the first wave it started out slow,like I was going nowhere, when all of a > sudden the thing just takes off and jumps into the wave like it had a > motor on it!Get up, turn,set rail and fuckin’ whoosh! gone baby gone!From > the moment it motored into the wave i started laughing-then when it hooked > up and took off on this 2’ wave I really started laughing!What a feeling! > What fuckin’ fun this is-and only on a 2’ roller! I can’t wait to get it > into a 4 footer when the point is spinning !I’ll be the one screaming by > with his grin peeled back past his ears!!! Hi Matt, The “El Paipo Grande”(8-8) Paul made for me has had me laughing and grinning for about a month now! It loved Rincon’s -tide, yet it has worked in everything I have had it in. I would love to trade boards for a couple waves some day soon.
Hi Matt,>>> The “El Paipo Grande”(8-8) Paul made for me has had me laughing > and grinning for about a month now! It loved Rincon’s -tide, yet it has > worked in everything I have had it in.>>> I would love to trade boards for a couple waves some day soon. I shaped the Simmons board for Spencer Kellogg. I had Walker cut two reject 10’3" blanks 4" offcenter, then glue together the wide halves of each blank…netting a huge chunk of foam to work with. You can’t shape a Simmons board from a regular blank because the tail of that design is so wide. I used Greenough’s 5 foot long Velo kneeboard template and a yardstick to make the Simmons template! The curve consists of the Velo nose and tail 4’8" apart, with a straight line between them…netting a 9’8" board, 19.25" - 23" - 19.25". Not a perfect Simmons curve, but very close. The rocker is also very radical. 4.5" of nose lift and only 1" of tail lift. That seems very flat, but the big hull under the nose works wonders. It surfs like a Velo kneeboard in many ways, which is very fast and powerful…but it only needs 6" (that’s six inches) of swell to get it up and moving. Proneman’s “El Paipo Grande” (which is a giant paipo/belly board) is very similar, but not quite as radical. 8’8" long, 18.5" - 23.25" - 17". Greenough curves as well, but not dead straight in the center, just a gentle straight area. Both the Simmons board and El Paipo Grande have very, very deep hulls, yet aren’t reliant on the fin because of the straight outlines. An 8" Greenough works best in both of them so far. Larger fins are too tracky, smaller fins spin out without warning. I haven’t ridden El Paipo Grands yet, but the Simmons board is a hoot from the minute you get it into the water.
One look at the long, straight as an arrow track behind a Simmons board in the old Malibu photos says it all. For flat out trim speed, has there ever been a faster board?
One look at the long, straight as an arrow track behind a Simmons board in > the old Malibu photos says it all. For flat out trim speed, has there ever > been a faster board? After the session Matt and I had on the Simmons board last evening, I’m thinking only Greenough’s spoons can match the Simmons’ speed, but they need 6 ft. plus point surf, offshores, and no people…
Proneman’s “El Paipo Grande” (which is a giant paipo/belly > board) is very similar, but not quite as radical. 8’8" long, > 18.5" - 23.25" - 17". Greenough curves as well, but not > dead straight in the center, just a gentle straight area.>>> Both the Simmons board and El Paipo Grande have very, very deep hulls, yet > aren’t reliant on the fin because of the straight outlines. An 8" > Greenough works best in both of them so far. Larger fins are too tracky, > smaller fins spin out without warning.>>> I haven’t ridden El Paipo Grands yet, but the Simmons board is a hoot from > the minute you get it into the water. Paul and Proneman, Photos! Please! Does the Simmons look fairly similar to the one in the Museum in Ventura? I’m told the curator there is a surfer- he might be open to careful professional templating etc. off that for historical purposes if you haven’t already done that. El Paipo Grande: 8’8" for a bellyboard? That’s a radical departure for what is traditionally thought of in much smaller terms. What was the thinking behind this? Nels
Please , call it a P.Gross , not a Simmoms.
After the session Matt and I had on the Simmons board last evening, I’m > thinking only Greenough’s spoons can match the Simmons’ speed, but they > need 6 ft. plus point surf, offshores, and no people… Paul after reading this post I went straight to a back issue of Surfers Journal and read the article you did on Greenough (nice).You are a hell of a writer along with Kampion,Parmenter,Matt Warshaw etc.I read somewhere that Matt Warshaw was composing an in depth volume (encyclopedia) on surfing.I was wondering if you could clue us in on that and I also wonder if Matt would be interested in info. on now defunct east coast builders.Thanks R. Brucker
Paul and Proneman,>>> Photos! Please!>>> Does the Simmons look fairly similar to the one in the Museum in Ventura? > I’m told the curator there is a surfer- he might be open to careful > professional templating etc. off that for historical purposes if you > haven’t already done that.>>> El Paipo Grande: 8’8" for a bellyboard? That’s a radical departure > for what is traditionally thought of in much smaller terms. What was the > thinking behind this?>>> Nels Nels- are you referring to the now defunct surf museum or the historical museum by the mision?
Please , call it a P.Gross , not a Simmoms. true it is not a Simmons but a replica as i stated.we refere to it as the Simmons board in our conversations so we know which board we’re taliking about.eg, we have several boards of similar design/shape ,long and short, each with it’s own moniker so we know exactly which seven footer, spoon or gun we are talking about-ol’ yeller, orange crate, arc tail, falsa,etc.no disrespect meant towards Simmons at all, in fact quite the opposite-respect and tribute.
Paul and Proneman,>>> Photos! Please!>>> Does the Simmons look fairly similar to the one in the Museum in Ventura? > I’m told the curator there is a surfer- he might be open to careful > professional templating etc. off that for historical purposes if you > haven’t already done that.>>> El Paipo Grande: 8’8" for a bellyboard? That’s a radical departure > for what is traditionally thought of in much smaller terms. What was the > thinking behind this?>>> Nels The Simmons board I shaped is very similar to a genuine Simmons, but not an exact copy. Hull and rails are very close, as is the nose curve, but the curve in the tail is a Greenough spoon which has a fairly deep arc tail as opposed to a true square tail. It would have been easy to measure any one of a half dozen Simmons boards around the Ventura/Santa Barbara area, but I tried the Greenough curve and it looked right, as well as being conceptually the same idea. Yeah, the El Paipo Grande is pretty radical, length wise. The idea was to make a belly board that functioned more along the lines of a longboard. Proneman wanted to ride spots like Malibu, which are banned from Boogies, paipos, etc. He also wanted to ride small junky waves. So, we cleaned the slate and started from stratch. A Simmons-type board seemed like the way to go, but E.P.G. isn’t dead straight in the middle area. A blend of Greenough curves and the Simmons concept. It was an experiment that seems to be working. He’s ridden it at all kinds of spots…gnarly beach break like El Porto, delicate small waves at Malibu, etc. The deep hull keeps it under control, and allows him to carve around as if the board was much smaller.
Paul after reading this post I went straight to a back issue of Surfers > Journal and read the article you did on Greenough (nice).You are a hell of > a writer along with Kampion,Parmenter,Matt Warshaw etc.I read somewhere > that Matt Warshaw was composing an in depth volume (encyclopedia) on > surfing.I was wondering if you could clue us in on that and I also wonder > if Matt would be interested in info. on now defunct east coast > builders.Thanks R. Brucker Thanks for the kind words. Actually, I got a call from Matt Warshaw a couple of weeks ago, and that was the first time I’ve ever talked to him. I guess it’s going to be around 800 pages long. I’m sure that at some point, after the first volume appears, he will be deluged with detailed historical information from all four corners of the world, and will respond accordingly in the future. Imagine how many sincere and talented builders there have been in the past 40-plus years! I have his pone number here, but obviously I don’t want to post it. I’ll check on his e-mail address and post that in a day or two.
Thanks for the kind words. Actually, I got a call from Matt Warshaw a > couple of weeks ago, and that was the first time I’ve ever talked to him. > I guess it’s going to be around 800 pages long. I’m sure that at some > point, after the first volume appears, he will be deluged with detailed > historical information from all four corners of the world, and will > respond accordingly in the future. Imagine how many sincere and talented > builders there have been in the past 40-plus years! I have his pone number > here, but obviously I don’t want to post it. I’ll check on his e-mail > address and post that in a day or two. Thanks Paul.About “S” rocker…I shaped a ton of boards in 1969 with that foil line,Jim Phillips had a deck profile machine that ran on a router track.I still think that “S” deck boards are one of the most functional profiles ever made,not to mention the fact that they are beautiful to look at and put the thickness right where it was needed.It also allowed for a thin tail and nose while maintaining a fairly flat rocker.I think that I,m gonna go ahead and make another deck machine…just need to find the right blank.Anyone out there have any suggestions?Size range would be 8’0 to say 8’6 one “do it all blank”.???Maybe this should be a new string.
Nels- are you referring to the now defunct surf museum or the historical > museum by the mision? The Ventura County Historical Museum by the Mission…on permanent display for everyone.
Yeah, the El Paipo Grande is pretty radical, length wise. The idea was to > make a belly board that functioned more along the lines of a longboard. > Proneman wanted to ride spots like Malibu, which are banned from Boogies, > paipos, etc. He also wanted to ride small junky waves. So, we cleaned the > slate and started from stratch. A Simmons-type board seemed like the way > to go, but E.P.G. isn’t dead straight in the middle area. A blend of > Greenough curves and the Simmons concept. It was an experiment that seems > to be working. He’s ridden it at all kinds of spots…gnarly beach break > like El Porto, delicate small waves at Malibu, etc. The deep hull keeps it > under control, and allows him to carve around as if the board was much > smaller. Sounds like a new thread starting here…
Hey Paul, The comment about your past Journel article on Greenough was spot on! It was, and continues to be, one of the best moments in the Journel’s history. How about another piece on George’s current life in Australia? Designs, movie projects, lifestyle…?! Concerning your current board project…will they be made available for the general public? You mentioned about the board working in beach break conditions. What about Hawaii - small to medium Town or Country? I recall that Simmons had a lot of trouble with his designs at Sunset. Mahalo.
Thanks Paul.About “S” rocker…I shaped a ton of boards in 1969 > with that foil line,Jim Phillips had a deck profile machine that ran on a > router track.I still think that “S” deck boards are one of the > most functional profiles ever made,not to mention the fact that they are > beautiful to look at and put the thickness right where it was needed.It > also allowed for a thin tail and nose while maintaining a fairly flat > rocker.I think that I,m gonna go ahead and make another deck > machine…just need to find the right blank.Anyone out there have any > suggestions?Size range would be 8’0 to say 8’6 one “do it all > blank”.???Maybe this should be a new string. I’ll continue on this thread for convenience sake… There aren’t many options when it comes to boards 8 feet and over, becasue they have to be at least 3 1/4" thick to get the right rocker and an S deck, and the fun board blanks are all too thin, even if you get the right bottom curve glued into them. So, what I do, which is sadly very wasteful, is use either the 10’3" Clark or the 10’3" Walker and order various rocker templates glued up depending on the design I am building. IN MY OPINION, Walker foam is vastly superior for boards over 7’ long. It is crisper and firmer. Plus Walker will work with little guys like us who only order a blank here or there. In terms of rocker curves, Clark stopped catering to low volume builders after the wonderful Dick Morales passed away some years back. It’s Yuppie City in Laguna Niguel these days… The down side of the Walker 10’3" is that the bottom is crudely rolled, so often you have to take out all the roll and put your own hull in. Fortunately, there is enough thickness to take out the roll, conform the rocker to your specifications, and still get a nice S deck. Overall, the best hull/S-deck blank out there for boards over 7’. As I said, it is very wasteful, but another way to look at it is one good board that lasts 5 years out of an oversized blank is less wasteful than one lousy board every 6 months out of efficient blanks.
Hey Paul,>>> The comment about your past Journel article on Greenough was spot on! It > was, and continues to be, one of the best moments in the Journel’s > history. How about another piece on George’s current life in Australia? > Designs, movie projects, lifestyle…?!>>> Concerning your current board project…will they be made available for > the general public? You mentioned about the board working in beach break > conditions. What about Hawaii - small to medium Town or Country? I recall > that Simmons had a lot of trouble with his designs at Sunset. Mahalo. Mitch, Thanks again for the nice comments, guys. Sometimes I wonder if anyone out there cares about surfing the way we do. I don’t know about any more stuff about George in the Journal, they seem pretty burned out on him at the moment. He’ll be releasing Dolphin Glide in the next year or so, so there will probably be more about him the near future. the one thing to remember about Geroge is that he isn’t any different than any of us…except he surfs a lit better! He really is stoked when someone shows interest in his work. Too bad he won’t get on the net and start communicating. He is a very generous person. I build boards for people on a one-off basis out of our shaping room in Ventura. (“Our” meaning Spencer Kellogg and I, through the legendary Blinky) The price depends on what you want and where you live. Each one comes out different, cost-wise. They aren’t cheap, but I put a lot of time in on each one, and I treat each one like it’s the last board a surfer will ever get. It’s the only way to make hulls, which are so hard to build and tune in. As far as the Sandwhich Islands are concerned, I think Town surf would be ideal for a Simmons cruiser under head high or so. I think I would make it a bit narrower (22" as opposed to 23") and maybe use the slightly pointed nose Simmon used for his bigger wave boards…just to cut through the afternoon texture. The rolling waves in Town would really be able to make use fo the wide tail area. As far as Country surf goes, I can’t imagine much surf a Simmons would be good for except maybe small Sunset Point, small Kammies, and small Laneikea…like that. The Simmons is really hard to turn and duck out of the way of falling sections, it just wants to keep going down the line. I’m sure there are a lot of spots over there that I don’t know about that might be perfect, who knows. One thing that is interesting is that with the small fin that seems to work best, there is very little draw, so shallow conditions might be OK. Beach break would depend on the kind of break. A hard dumping shorebreak wouldn’t be much fun, but rollers would be a blast. I’m thinking Tourmalaine, Mandos, Campus Beach, Waikiki, San-O would be killer spots.
Paul, If I go forward with an order, do I have to contact you through the Ventura Surf Shop - I’ve been overseas and last I remember Stan Fujii owned V.S.S… Can one contact you through Stan? I caught up with Ben Aipa recently and he mentioned that Stan may be setting up a shaping business in the area - is he no longer associated with Ventura Surf Shop(end of an era if its true!)? Thanks again for the previous response. Mitch