Single fins for big wave guns

General Discussion
61

…still my claim is not responded

 

seems that this is a really black hole in surfboard design

and no one seems to have a valid or proved point about it

only yes thrusters doing for me or singles perfom this or that

or quads are fine for Mavericks

Bonzers?

 

what about the big famous names? what about their opinions?

I think that even they don t know exactly why one or other performs better in big guns

 

still I believe that a Thruster is not a design for a big gun

don t follow the concept and still no body claim a valid point about why is possibly better than singles or bonzers, than in my opinion are far better than thrusters in guns

 

so here we go again

and may be some iluminated or any “techie” have the proper opinion

62

Reverb:

Please express your option as to why Thrusters are wrong and why single fins are better?

It's all good, just like to hear your coments on the subject?

 

Greg Long likes Thrusters. Nathan Fetcher likes Quads. Owl Chapman still rides a single.

It's what ever you prefere? My friend who has a house in Puerto Escondio had me make 6 guns for him all Thrusters.

I'm making a bunch of guns for Hawaii and everyone wants a Thruster? I give them options however they want Thrusters?

OK I have one Doctor who orders a bunch of Single fins each year. Dropped a lot of Acid back in the day,

Maybe there all wrong? I don't know? I rode singles in the 70's and I prefere a Thruster myself. Please explain? All the science jargon is usally BS when it comes to surfing anyway. Its all preception. We all have different believe systems.

Flex? WMD? Single fins? Go a head and down load some math tables and explain away!

 

Surfding

63

multi fins more forgiving in less than optimal conditions???

64

Hello all,

On a tangential note, but perhaps relevant.  R. Cone shaped me a beautiful 10’6" single fin gun (11 1/2x22x11x3 7/8) that I took out for the first time today.  It is a work of art.  The surf was 14@17 seconds.  I did not catch a wave but neither did anyone else (as no one else was paddle-in surfing when I was out).  I felt super confident to be out in the biggish stuff with the board he shaped.  Hope to catch something nice tomorrow as the swell drops.  I’ll post a photo of the board tomorrow.

65

I’m sorry Randy… why are you being such a dick?  Did I say something derogatory about you or your boards?  Never that I remember.  What’s with the attitude?   

I know you’re out at Mavericks all the time.  I don’t claim that I am.  I have caught waves there.  I’ve caught waves in lots of places for over 46 years.  At 51, big waves aren’t all I care about any more.  I’m older and slower than I used to be, and I have fun surfing all kinds of boards in all kinds of conditions.  Just because I don’t only ride guns doesn’t mean I can’t when the time comes.  

Over the years, I’ve worked with many of the world’s great shapers.  I’ve spent a lot of time talking to them about what they think works and what doesn’t.  I know what works for me.  This is an open forum, and is intended as a place to exchange ideas about surfing and surfboards.  Occasionally I pipe-in and offer my opinion.  I’ve never claimed my comments are anything more than my opinion.  I also try and refrain from personal attacks on others… regardless of how retarded they are.  

 

66

Kendall, shut the F-up! Talk about things you know about, don't even start talking about maverick's like you know! Take off on a wave out there and then start talking, then at least you can start. As for what people are riding out there, I see everything, single's, tri's, quad's, and my favorite the 2+1 with the back fin about 6 3/4" and the front fins about 2 1/2". Do you think Stretch was the first to put the handles on surfboards? If you think the direction I'm going with my boards is just a copy of Stretch, you're even more ignorant than I thought. Closer to Greenough but I do give Stretch and Cole credit for a naturally stronger by design idea. So Kendall, sit on your longboard and shut up. Having guns doesn't count if all they are doing is sitting in your garage and gathering dust.

67

Rcone:

How big are the guns you ride at Mav's?

You say 6 1/2 back fin and fronts?

Cant?

Toe?

Thanks and much repect,

Surfding

68

Hello Kendall"(Big waves are some of the most forgiving equipment-wise.  All you’ve got to do is make the drop and stay ahead of the lip)",

I appreciate your input, particularly about the importance of paddlebility for guns in biggish surf…However, big surf is not forgiving on the shape or dynamics of boards on the face.  The speed and power pushes things exponentially.  The wrong board, (that maybe you love in smaller stuff), will lose control, pearl, stall on the takeoff, or not make the section when it gets bigger.  One can ride anything when it’s head high, but the dynamics (e=mv 2) of larger waves speed and power require a certain rigor of design.  So I don’t think bigger surf is forgiving of design.  When it is big, I truly want to be riding the best board shaped by a shaper who understands the dynamics of bigger waves.   So I want to find a board shaped by someone who rides the bigger stuff because have tested their own designs.  I’d buy a Linden over a Stretch, an R. Cone over a Merrick.  I know this wasn’t your point but my own.   However, thanks for your input and knowledge as a shaper, though my perspective may differ from yours, or not at all.

69

 

I’ve said this before on different threads… but the most true thing about surfboard performance is… it’s all subjective.  As long as my board makes the drop, goes as fast as I need it to, turns when I want it to… it’s working.  I don’t quite get why some people obsess over “ultimate speed” or performance, when adequate speed and “oneness” with your board is a more appropriate quest.  

A board with no fins will go faster than a board with any other amount of fins.  If you want control, you’ll probably need at least one fin.  The “type” of control you like should then determine the amount, size, and arrangement of those fins.  Unless your surfing the fastest waves in the world, you don’t need the fastest board.  You just need one that will keep you where you want to be.  

Big waves are some of the most forgiving equipment-wise.  All you’ve got to do is make the drop and stay ahead of the lip.  The rest is window dressing.  There is more effective “play area” on big waves.  A relaxed attitude and the ability to hold your breath do way more on big waves than any amount of fins.  At Mavericks, you don’t even really need to turn.  There’s not miles of face connected to the bowl.  It’s simply commitment and a sleigh ride to safety… or possibly a pounding followed by a trip through the rocks to the lagoon.  

For me, the most important feature of a big wave gun is ease of paddling and paddling speed.  Once I’m on the wave and standing, it’s all gravy… unless the template, rocker, or thickness are off… but that’s another thread :wink:

OK… go back to obsessing about something there’s no universal answer to.  

70

I've said this before on different threads... but the most true thing about surfboard performance is... it's all subjective.  As long as my board makes the drop, goes as fast as I need it to, turns when I want it to... it's working.  I don't quite get why some people obsess over "ultimate speed" or performance, when adequate speed and "oneness" with your board is a more appropriate quest.  

Well said!

Kendall:

Do you ride a single fin or a thruster in large surf?

I like Dick Brewers Thruster Set up on Guns.

I follow his linear logic.

 

SD

71

Aloha Kendall:

Well put I couldn’t agree more, especially the bit about paddling and paddling speed, right on the money!

72

Kendall I'm not going to get into a written pissing match with you because Its a waste of time. The truth about your type comes out in the long run. Myself and the other mavericks surfers who have had to read or hear about guys talking about surfing mavericks just makes us a little ill. I don't know how many times I have come in from a session, went to have a beer, and have had to sit next to some guy telling a story about how he just came in from mavericks. Never having had seen the guy, knowing all he is trying to do is impress some chicks and get laid. So I sit there in silence. I've tried to take the old saying, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." but sometimes it just can't be avoided. This isn't just limited to mavericks. The claimertons come from all over the world, all ages, all different sports or careers. I will try harder to just stick to the subject.

Surfding, I am currently riding a 9'4", 2+1, 19 7/8"x 3 1/4"  I'm trying to be a giver, so trailer fin 6 5/8" not much rake, fairly narrow base set at 7 3/4" up. The side fins are 2 7/8", set close to the rail at 14 7/8" up, very little toe-in. I was riding tri fins for the past couple of years, just found I didn't like them in the bigger stuff. The 2+1 gives you the stability of the single but with more turnability because believe it or not some guys want to surf, not stand and survive. I rode some 4-fins, just not predictable enough for me. I have a 6'3" 4-fin that I love, used to ride them a lot in the early 80's, very glad they have had a comeback.  

73

Thanks!

 

Funny I use to ride a Twinser more like a quad of today back in 86. I wondered why they never when anywhere until recently?

Back in the 70's on the North Shore riding single fins with no leash was kind of a rush. You Maverick's Guys are way more Gnarly and I will never pretend otherwise. I did surf some bombs down in Chile however I still think Maverick is way heavier because the left points just peel like a machine south of the Equator. Maverick seems way less predicable?  Never surf there and may never have the chance.

Thank for the fin info!

 

Surfding

74

Hi Randy - Thanks for taking the time to share here.  Would you be so kind as to expound on these statements please:

I rode some 4-fins, just not predictable enough for me.

And:

I didn’t like them (Tri fins) in the bigger stuff.

I ask because I am currently riding tri fins (10’7"/9’3") in the bigger surf I can up here in Oregon (When the wind conditions allow - so far 14-16’ @ 16 " was probably the biggest), and am interested in the possibility of increasing my turning ability on the cleanest days, as such I am seriously considering a quad set up (Not sure of the type, (see other thread) as the quads I’ve made have been shortish, for me (6’8"/7’5"), and have a “McKee” type set up.

Thanks again -



75

Found this (used to have) 3 fin gun on the beach at Laniakea about a week ago. Mr. Cool had the leash fail on an outer reef outside Jockos on a day he said was the biggest day of the year so far on North shore. He had been surfing late in day and said he did a fair amt. of lookin. Was shaped by Gordon Quigg(son of Joe) whom I e-mailed and he put me on to Mr. Cool. Next to my 9-3 for contrast.

76

whoever said thrusters arent good on longboards has never surfed a well made tri fin hi-perf 9’0" in 6-8ft hawaiian tubes. they are exceptional in good surf. just not in nor-cal surf. theres a reason for everything, thrusters dont work good where ur from, but dont compare that to hawaii. i wouldnt every paddle out on a heavy wave with a single fin longboard, you wouldnt make the backdoor. ive never seen guys on a single make good barrels on a longboard, only 2+1 or tri’s. i ride my Sean Orodonez 9’0" carbon rail thruster or quad depending on the day from 2ft to 10ft and if it was a single i would have drown. (or at least not been able to make any of the waves going top to bottom and getting tubed) and it works good for smaller outer reef days, or i ride an 8’6" charlie smith thruster… (im only 130lbs)

waves in hawaii just arent like waves in norcal. there warm, no wetsuit and get extremely hollow. thrusters are the best boards for that, and a quad setup right is close, but singles can not hang unless thats just ur style of surfing then they work.

77

learning to ride the board you have

proving applied theoretical barrel hangovers

All boards work within certain perameters

an entire generation maybe two have trained

on the three fin,five generations have trained on the twin fin

a quad is a spilt twin with a jib setting.

the variables are geometric

the combination possibilities

go off the scales after three

break one and repair a fin

and lose the tuning…

all this adds up to a heyday for the

‘I know stuff and you don’t attitududes’

 

learning to ride- justify a single fin is also a challenge.

the study of the single has retreated to the shadows

all boasting aside single fins are a simple solution

that in itself makes the the best.

Repair and replacement accuracy

also the best solution

ten generations since the 1930’s

have studied in the shadow of the single…

 

finless studies were curtailed and have been hiding in the shadows

since the tom blake water ski bolt-ons…

laying to rest the finless studies

of the previous 800 -1000 years.

Oh how primitive those aboriginal from polynesia

no match for an allen wrench.

 

Lords of mavericks 

praise and fealty

to ya’all.

The picture in that journal back page

is indickitive of a new world dominated by

spectatoes…

hundreds upon hundreds share the rush with the 

actual wave riders…bitchin.

 

how many guys were out as ross’s

maybe only stan ross on his mat.

 

man oh man

fins … the most fragile design element

 their failure capable of disrupting 

months of serious training.

boards with fins dont work as well as

surfers adapting to them do.

 

 

…ambrose…

 

any fin combo is capable of becoming a one trick pony’s crutch

fins made surfing easier for the untrained.Finless  is real hard to ride

It will never ever become popular with the majority of surfing masses.

The market share mentality that drives ‘‘design progress-promotion’’

will validate the specialty board and the secret code fin placement.

YOU TOO CAN BECOME A MAVERICK

ride something diffrent

a maverick is an unbranded steer

on the open range,cowboy, look it up.

a maverick aint a soccer-mom or a 

pit bull with lipstick…

turn your back on the mirror

look over your shoulder

is their a brand burnt

into your hind quarter?

 

oh yeah I’m back.

78

Amen!!