I’m brand new on this forum, and hope not to ask a question that is too redundant. I am novice shaper, but the boards that I am doing for friends are working well enough to the point that I am being recommended. So far my fish style boards are working the best. Anyway, I have a guy who is about 5’10 weighing 195 pounds. He wants a fish between 5’6 and 5’8", and no bigger. So far my boards have all been for taller riders e.g. 6’4" up to 6’7". I haven’t actually shaped anything under 6’1". I really want to nail this board. The guy who ordered it will mainly be surfing Manhattan beach. I want to take all of these factors into consideration before drawing out the shape. I have a 6’2" C blank ready to go.
need to convince him that it’s not realistic—my 24 year old stud muffin son rides a 5’10" pavel fish…this guy is fooling himself. and when it dosn’t work for him your rep will take the burn.
“as for the board, i’d like to make you a 6’4” x 21" x 3" double-wing bump quad. the pulled-in tail will make the board more responsive than a traditional template at this longer length. let me know what you think about all this and we’ll get started on a new board for you "
She’s a beaut and flys on the forehand
I don’t know how the calcs would’ve changed if you pushed it down to 5’8"
That is more what I’m used to. In fact I have shaped a few boards off the 6’5" P blank that are similar. I’m waiting to get one back from glassing for me and its 6’3", 21 1/4 , 2 5/8 ( quad). I notched a little step about 10 inches up from the tail where the back of the board squeezes down for more maneuverability. I don’t like a board that is too flat for me cause I am all for surfing as top to bottom as I can. Anyway I am at the drawing board here literally, working with a 5’8" X 22". Thanx for all feedback.
with the fish template for the size of the client you are describing, i’m not sure that anything over 6’0 would be beneficial in terms of peformance.
I know a lot of bigger guys like stuff in the 6’3-6’6 range with regards to a Lis type fish (and will swear by it), but i really don’t understand how a board that large can match the speed, rail-to-rail, and maneuverability of something under 6’. Seems like a crutch.
i know many will disagree with me, but that’s just my $0.02. actually, it’s my $0.03.
We all know what its like to get a request that is beyond what we would recommend in terms of matching a rider to his/her board. My approach, as a custom painter/ furniture builder / and surfboard maker, is to give the client exactly what they ask for. The challenge, is making it work no matter how far off the proportions may be. A lot of times, people have an idea in their mind, and it is only half way illustrated to them, then they try to communicate whatever that may be to the craftsman. I have found that the hardest part about a painting, or building a table or shaping a surfboard is convincing someone that what they think they want, is really not in the cards. The hard part is that you don’t want to loose business. I have actually had to turn down requests from people, because sometimes it is simply too time consuming for me to develop a product that is consistent with a functional aesthetic, and what the client is asking for.
Back to the point, since I posted the original question, I have drafted about 10 different versions of 5’7"s and 5’8"s. While reading all of the great input on the forum, so far on paper the best version I have developed is a 5’8".
The wide point is @ 3’ 4" from the tail roughly 22 1/4". Nose = 18 1/8". Tail 17 1/4". The end of the swallow tail is 11 3/4", and the crease is 6" up. I’m thinking that about 2 3/4" thick would be about enough flotation. The client is a good surfer. Since he will mostly be surfing Manhattan beach, I figure he will be able to get away with a small board.
I think I’ll try one last time to get him on board (literally) with a 5’10". It would be so much easier. If not, I can’t wait to paddle out with this guy and see how he makes it work.
Thanx again for all the input. I just switched over from the surfermag forum to check out swaylocks and everyone is very knowledgeable and helpful.
I would like some advice on the dims for a new fish surfboard. My earliest boards were lazer zap styled quads when I was 19 and I would like to return to a shorty, now that I'm in my early 40's. I've been riding on and off since then and consider my skill level to be in between beginner and intermediate, but should be improving as I cna get in the water a lil more often now. I'm 5'7" and approximately 175lbs but plan on being 155lbs by 06/09'. I rode quads as a kid graduated to thrusters and now I'm back on a 3" thick, 21.375" wide and 6'4" long quad. For my fish I would like to go to 6'0" or shorter. Can any of you advise me on some general dimensions and whether a Twin keel would work for south Florida conditions?
You may want to PM “rdj” here. He borrowed my 5’8" Larry Mabile fish and based his recent self-shaped twin-keel off it. He may have the info you need as that board is more than enough float for me (I am 6’0" and anwhere between 175 and 195). I can (and do) go way shorter and lower volume on my fish shapes nowadays; I’m currently riding a 5’6" Mike Daniel-shaped Coil that is super thin and goes like a bat outta hell (check the “coil ride reports” thread for a pic).
I’m 52, 5-7, 185# and not in great shape. I have very average ability as a surfer. I just finished a 5-5 fishie (5.5 x 21 x 2.75) that floats me very comfortably - in the water I’m floating about 2" above my navel. The key to going short and still being able to paddle it is to retain the classic fish rocker (mine is 3.25" - N, and 1.25" tail), and go a touch wider at the nose and tail (17" for both) and to bring the volume out to the rails - I used a very slightly concaved deck dropping to a medium fish-style rail. Because of the width I used a curvier template but I still ended up with 12" tip to tip at the tail.
There’s a pic of my board right now on the front page of the Resources section. I used a 5-11J EPS blank from WNC and did it up in epoxy. Their 6-2 blank actually has more rocker.
For reference, a generic 6.2 x 18.5 x 2.4 thruster shows in AkuShaper at 27.3 liters; the generic 6-8 x 19 x 2.5 shows at 32.8 liters. Believe it or not the 5-5 template and layout showed at about 40 liters so there’s a lot of additional volume there in addition to a lot more surface area than your standard shortboard. The numbers themselves may not be dead accurate, but I expect that the ratios resulting from the comparisons are.
As far as volume and float go I don’t think the length itself is the big limitation. Stretching my template and layout out to 5-10 only increased the volume to 43.7 liters in AkuShaper; less than 10%. I’m pretty sure the increase in planing area is more than that. I think the big limitation is going to be your guy’s ability to handle the shorter length and the flatter rocker.
My son (23, 6-1, 230#) surfs a 6.0 x 22 x 3.0 keel fish that’s a bit wider everywhere than mine, albeit in PU/PE. I find that board to be way too much volume in this design for my tastes. I have a tough time sinking the rails on a turn on that board. I think it’s actually easier to surf a flat rocker with a shorter length. As for turning, that somewhat comes down to bottom and rail contours as well as fin placement. I used a flat bottom with very subtle vee in the last 12" of the tail and a tucked edge on the rail for release; and I set my board up as a keel-twinzer with the keel being ~5" forward of the tail tips. In conjunction with the curvier outline at the tail I find the combo to be quite loose as fishies go. My son thinks it looks a little too loose under me.
FYI, I don’t think you’ll get as flat a rocker at that length off the blank you’re using unless you’re planning on flattening it out on the bottom. Some people are good at that but I suck at it so I try to avoid that kind of situation by choosing my blanks carefully.
What you could do is map out your guy’s current board on one of the CAD programs to see how much volume he already has, then see if he actually wants to go down in volume or stay where he’s at. From there you can figure out what length and thicknesses you need to meet (or exceed) that volume and go from there. The trick to reasonably figuring volumes is to be realistic with how you’re going to be able to lay out the deck (flat, domed or otherwise), rails and rocker.
im a bigger guy at 205 / 6’1" and like the smaller boards > 6’ with extra volume. i made a 6’ x 21 x 3.25" for a buddy who also also likes them when the waves get weak. This one is a really think board thats pretty flat though middle with 1.5" rear and 3.5" front with a good amount of V out the tail. It’s super floaty and makes alot out of nothing. made from a 6’9A blank
The baord is a bit thick but its really fun. im thinking about making another one thats a five fin pro box setup.
a major skill a shaper must have is to be able to communicate and advise a potential customer of what will work and why, this is your time to explain how the board will perform, the advantages and disadvantages to shaping what he has requested, you need to be honest and clear so he can then make an educated decision and then once the board is shaped he can look back and know that you gave him solid and correct advise....It is up to you to make this boaed work for him, so the initial discussions are critical..if you say that you'll make him a 5'8" fish and then it doesnt work for him, you arent goin to be recommended again by him...this is a skill that takes time and some very well known shapers do not have this at all...but marketing, dollars and sponsored surfers ensure they are still in demand....people wanna have what is cool and in the mags......the order form is the most important part of the custom shape....
I would move the widepoint forward and go wider than the "norm" and go thicker. I have experimented in building different boards to accomadate my 6'7" 260lb frame. I have found there a great balence with going shorter and wider. I built a 6'4" fish this year and moved the widepoint forward 3"s and went 23 1/2" wide. Extreme width>>>???? Not for my size.. This sucker works. Heres a picture of my outline.
