So Cal Winter Epoxy Glassing Questions

I glassed three EPS boards over the summer with RR epoxy resin. I’m happy with the product. I have enough resin left to do one more board. MarkSSD just glassed a EPS/epoxy board and it came out awesome.(early fall) Duckdive is currently shaping an EPS board and should be glassing soon.(mid fall) Chano wants to glass a short board.(late fall).Surf4fins has some foam for me. (early winter) Plusoneshaper sticks with the 80-85 degree for perfect results. We have mild winters here in So Cal but night time temps are droping fast.

Any one out there glassing with Resin Research in So Cal care to comment?

I’m trying to stay away from heated work shops and massive denatured alcohol wipe downs.

Maybe I need to wait until next summer!

Ray

Yes, I’ve read the archives :slight_smile:

I’ve been glassing in my shop (heated and insulated), the temp outside is 40 deg F and the highest I can bring it in the shop is between 60 and 70 degrees and I experience no problems (Fast hardener and use a touch more add.F).

Been doing large repairs in my shed last week, temp inside 10-12C, high humidity due to the rain.

I Heat the resin and add F by puting the seperate contontainors in to a tub that fits into a larger tub filled with hot water in the botton and around the sides.

Use a few more drops of add F than normal.

No problems but flip time is about 4-6 hours, slightly longer for cutting laps

Glass it inside you car. Cars never get cold, and if it does…bam, just turn on your heater.

I’ve had some poor results with epoxy setting up when I pushed the cold factor. With My HWS, I found that if you’re below about 60 degrees the epoxy won’t harden- it gets kind of a rubbery consistency. Given about a month or two, it will eventually harden up after that. Above 60 it just took longer, but I didn’t have any problems with it setting up. Might be a good candidate for post cure if you’re going to glass in cooler temps as well.

Pat

Anybody have a mini van they want to loan me?

Climate control and post cure oven all in one. 6 speaker sound system too!

I glassed two boards last year with temps in the low 60’s. One had a little blushing, the other was fine. I just laminated a longboard and I’m getting ready to hot coat. My shop temps are hovering around 65 to 70 degrees at best. This time I’m going to try using the X-55 accelerator. I’ll post my results.

Don’t have to heat the whole shop. Just make a small hot box for the board itself to cure in. Could also be your postcure box after the initial cure. Just use a small electric heater to keep it at the perfect curing temp.

Maybe I haven’t stated this succinctly enough, but from my Aerospace Industry background

I can tell you a helpful hint one more time…

Epoxy can reach a hardened, handle-able state, but not be fully cured. You can surf a board

that is not cured. When not fully cured, epoxy will feel kind of firm, like the same hardness as

polyester resin on a low-density blank.

It is extremely desireable to get the epoxy change-of-state reaction to go as fully to completion

as possible, since epoxy can be as much as 4 times stronger than polyester (depending upon

brand and type of wash on the fibers).

Here is what we found happens:

If a board is made in a good epoxy temperature (say, 80F) and is not allowed to drop below this

temp during the entire construction, maximum strength is more likely to be approached. Letting

the temp fall at any phase of the build will compromise this chance. For example, if you glass the

bottom in a room at 80F, then decide to do the deck the next day and overnight the temp drops

to 65F, you will most likely not get near max strength- even with post-curing.

On the other hand, if you glass the entire board at a good temperature then go directly to post-cure,

then you ensure doing the best in getting a truly good, strong product.

This is why we have a digitally controlled oven that holds up to 8 boards. I am a proponent of doing

a board in one session. Flip times are about 45 minutes. As a note, we started doing the “Brazil style”

of laminating where the board is flipped at the onset of B-stage. Literally ‘wet to the touch’ but tacked

in place. The deck is lammed without any lap prep needed. This maximizes strength of the rails. We

have photo sequences of this being done on our website under the New Tech section.

One caveat is the deck lam must go to B-stage before going into an oven that is more than 5 degrees

above ambient. If the room is at 80F then B-stage will be reached in less than 20 minutes, so the

oven can be at 105F without having any blowouts.

Hotcoats seem to take slightly longer than lams (due to film thickness/thinness?) but still are reasonable

for a one-session build.

Arid weather like in southern California takes away from the effectiveness of heated rooms. This can be

as much as 10F.

Post-cure of 4 hours at 105F appears to get very noticible increases in strength. Our sander does not

like sanding post-cured boards so we are working on that one while still getting the max strength.

Anyways, sorry for crapping on, just trying to help. Even here in southern California, heed these warnings,

otherwise you are facing a long winter of learning… (or you don’t mind soft boards)

Thank you for your reply PlusOne. I have read all your post about epoxy and that’s why I’m so leary about glassing with epoxy this time of year. Today at noon it was 65 degrees in my workshop and drizzling outside. I’m not planning to build a hot box or heat my garage to 80 degrees. Looks like I’m waiting until warmer weather comes back.

Ray

One more question

Can a product like X-55 accelerator make up for lower temp or does it just speed up cure time ?

I glassed a board with RR epoxy late last winter. While I’m sure that post-curing would have increased the strength, it is still harder (and was harder to sand) than any polyester board I’ve ever made. I’m in the UC area of San Diego. If you have an attic, that may be a good place to post-cure. If you glass around mid-day the attic should will be a good temp by the time the board has gelled.

Hi Stingray,

AFAIK, accelerators like X-55 reduce the pot life at desirable temperatures. I found at lower

temps, the pot life was roughly unchanged on the dispersed resin but reduced in the bucket.

Greg told me last year that X-55 will help the reaction go to completion but I have not used

it in less-than-desirable temperatures to see if this still holds true: I have been glassing in

good temperatures and have experienced great results.

Just wondering, why not rig a box around the board right after laminating? Or make a box out

of foam panels and set the board in it with a couple of lights for heat? Jam a candy thermometer

in the upper corner to monitor temp (80 to 95F will do about right). I mean, it won’t blow up

as there are no volatiles to speak of, and incandescent lights are not considered major ignition

sources.

If you have a box with all 6 sides using foam, you’d be surprised how quickly the temp goes up.

You can get all your glassing done in one session, which is most desirable. Plus you can use

techniques that reduce flip times to about 20 minutes (check my website if you get a chance,

under “New Tech”).

Hope this helps…

Thanks again PlusOne. I’m limited on space so the less stuff the better. I had to move my personal boards out to the shed on the side of the house in order to make room for all the repairs that I’m doing lately. I do like the simple foam box with lights for heat idea. Two EPS / epoxy short boards that I made this summer are being tested by the local 20 year olds. No real feed back yet but everyone likes the light weight and the cool spray jobs.

Share the stoke

Ray

Yeah, thanks for the hot tip PlusOne.

I did that with my first epoxy a year ago minus the hotbox. Not out of wanting strength, but to ride the board ASAP. Lammed the other side with the first lam kinda wet after an hour. I even flipped the hotcoat after 2 hours, which was sketchy as tape would not stick. My temp was about 70 for the first and 65 for the second. I did not know why that board could take a beating like no other. Lost it on the rocks almost a dozen times with no open dings to this day.

I had problems with it sticking to the glassing racks when it was wet. Is that why I see plastic on your racks for the second lam of glass? How wet is your board when you flip?

oh yeah, thanks for that Schroeder, I forgot to mention putting plastic sheet to prevent rack stick-age.

The first lam is put in our oven for about 10-20 minutes. B-stage. That is when the lamination starts to

show signs of firmness yet you could rip the glass off the blank. If you turn it upside-down the laps stay

in place. You can smash the cloth at the cut edge, which is what you want it to do when you lay down

your cloth for the first deck layer.

I could give you a detailed description if that helps. It is a pretty bold step but, what a difference in strength.

[edit. Don’t use tape for the first hotcoat, just run your HC down to the tucked edge and swipe any runs/drips with a stick or spreader, a bead will form there which ends up protecting the lap when you grind out the bottom of the board, chuck this into your oven for about an hour, then you can tape for the bottom HC and make a “tape dam” for any sharp edges you may want]

Hey StingRay, it is well worth having some heat for your boards this time of year in SD. If you decide to try

it, please share with us any noticible differences in the strength of your boards.

Regards,

George

5 degrees above ambeint temps right? Is that because you get blowouts on anything hotter than that? I tried the b-stage boogie on my board yesterday and had blowouts on the ofishl fin boxes. A little grind and fill took care of it, but was wonder about the 5 degree thing. My next try at your style of epoxy glassing will be lower and more controlled in the heat application.

My lap was pretty flat except for 6" at the center of the board’s rail that I did not push flat enough (my fault for rushing through the lam). I did the lap super wide as described. It was easy to apply extra pressure with the squeegee during wetout to flatten the lap. I’m digging that part alot, and it might become my normal routine. Mucho thanks again.

Hey Schroeder,

Our oven is digitally controlled and holds to a single degree, it’s pretty important. You can do it with a thermometer and some monitoring- no problem. Side 1 will not likely blow out. Side 2 seals/contains the “airy” eps foam core, and blow outs become a real concern. But you can pull it off perfectly if you put the board into the heat at the right time, for the right amount of time.

One technique is to put the board in the oven pretty hot, like 25 degF above ambient, then as you see blow outs, pull it out of the oven and squash the bubbles. This little burst of heat will kick your board past B-stage. For a couple of minutes you can form the epoxy and get the bubbles or any “nuggets” taken care of. This is a “glass temp” of sorts: manipulable but not hot to the touch.

As the board cools in room temp, the skin will actually contract against the blank (kinda like a vacuum).

By this time the epoxy will be dry to the touch and pretty darn firm. Then you can but the board back into the oven, really turn up the heat and keep it there. I’ve been post-curing at 105F for around 4 hours, but this seems to vary on factors like humidity (or lack thereof) and other boards in the oven.

Very curious if you get the same results as I have doing everything in one session. Pretty noticible from my end…

Good Luck!

G

Quote:
You can smash the cloth at the cut edge, which is what you want it to do when you lay down your cloth for the first deck layer.

Can you clarify on this one?