"I think that shaping a board on a keyboard is a cop-out. It totally sterilizes the seedbed of any future design; no great leaps will ever come out of it. Great leaps come from the backyard, from mistakes, from passion, from wanting to get out in the water the next day. it will never come from a sterile, dust-free environment - never. It will always be the backyarder."
..."I think that anyone that has gone out into the backyard shed and put ten boards under their belt is just as capable of coming up with the most exciting board they've ever ridden as anybody that has shaped 20,000 of them. Probably more so because now the production shapers are finishing most of their boards with machines, and the boards have become sterilized. I think a lot of really good boards need some wacky component to work against: some straight spot or some weird little kink or bump that kind of lets you work against it. Some of the best boards I've ever ridden were boards with aberrations or twists, and the most boring boards I've ever surfed have been the most technically perfect."
I was in my friends glassing factory the other week and there was a 9'8" gun for a well known young guy from Hawaii,from a well known shaper, it got my attention as we don't see many like that here. I was lookig at the shaped blank and the young sander commented,"wow, it must be so hard to do that on the computer", I did a triple take and asked him, do you mean its hard to handshape or do it on the computer [it was done on a computer, of course].he said , the computer, "it must be so hard to stretch the curves out. I could only reply, "I don't comment on shaping machines anymore", no point getting offside with guy that might sand your boards, but this is whats its come to and I agree with a lot of what Dave says, cheers H.
I should know by now that by posting that quote, it will be attributed to me LOL, but I don't discount the value of the machine in reproducing boards for pro's for whom a sixteenth inch variation would be noticed, or for production runs. I do think its good to recognize that handcrafted and correspondingly imperfect shapes have their place too. The computer is a valuable tool for many shapers, but handcrafted got us this far, and its been a pretty good ride on them aberrated boards after all! Nice to see the backyarder get a bit of recognition from a pro, too.
That is nice to read. Im a backyard shapper (actually i do all mine in the frontyard) and I have 16 boards now under my belt. With all the reading and research on design I do, I kinda feel the same way. If only I had thousands of dollars to just buy blanks and shape anything I wanted.
I sold my SurfTech longboard for 375. Bought resin and foam to build my own.......I'm no angel...
Stingray
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I knew this would come up. But I hadn't read through that thread before, and still haven't gotten all the way through it, and son of a Lightning Bolt gun, its actually pretty doggone interesting, so - thanks the the link!
You had me wondering - was that article 14 pages long? So I checked, the article is 12 pages, the thread is 14 pages. Agree or disagree (I never agree with everything anyone says, even myself hahaha), it all seemed pretty interesting to me, being (apparently) a nonsensaphile LOL.
Too much of a broad sweeping generalization for me to buy. The part about computer shaping. Some of my best riders have been ugly, boxy railed, laughers. It’s a mystery to me.Mike
Too much of a broad sweeping generalization for me to buy. The part about computer shaping. Some of my best riders have been ugly, boxy railed, laughers. It's a mystery to me.Mike
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I don't really fully buy it either, and I suspect, neither does he. In other words, isn't he is involved in making / selling boards that are computer drawn / cnc shaped? I mean, he's involved with Surftech, right? So his comments aren't, I think, intended as a dogma, more as a reaction to how he feels about the computer on a gut level. Like something is lost. He talks about craftsmanship, working hands-on, the shaper with callouses. He resents the "dust-free" shapers who produce surfboard designs with a keyboard and a mouse. Talks about the ancient Hawaiians drawing inspiration for their surfboard shapes from nature, seed pods, palm fronds, or whatever. Almost nostalgic.
The computer designed and computer shaped surfboard is here. No denying it. But I just liked the fact that he can recognize that the imperfections and quirks of hand-made are not all bad. He can see the inspiration that drives the backyarder is gonna naturally be more adventurous, more daring, than the profit driven corporate shaper. That's where innovation will come from. Kinda like Peter French said, there's room for both.
And your observation about some of your best riders - that's the magic of surfboard designing / building / riding. Its art, its science, its physics, its imitation, its innovation, its coincidence, accident, and luck of the draw!
Yes… a very romanticized view of shaper and surfboard design. But still, an interesting viewpoint, and I like to hear people’s opinions and theories. But personally, I tell the folks who take my class on the first night… “part of my job is to is to take the mystery out of building surfboards.” There’s no black magic… just knowledge and skills, balanced out with a healthy dose of creativity… just like almost everything else.
I bought into Dave P's stuff at one time....not any more.....I just put my head into my hands and weap.....
I weap for the poor souls that strive to be "cool" and get misguided......
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Very funny! I don't know much about Dave P, I have never bought into Dave P's stuff, so I'm coming from a different perspective. Sure, a certain amount is BS, like every interview, and like every forum too, I expect that. I just found some of it to be of interest, seeing as it is coming from an "industry" guy.
Yes... a very romanticized view of shaper and surfboard design. But still, an interesting viewpoint, and I like to hear people's opinions and theories. But personally, I tell the folks who take my class on the first night... "part of my job is to is to take the mystery out of building surfboards." There's no black magic... just knowledge and skills, balanced out with a healthy dose of creativity... just like almost everything else.
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Yeah, I don't think there's any "black magic" to it either, like I said, science physics art chance and coincidence. Meaning that there's no exact formula when experimenting or refining. A lot of it is intuition and trial and error, once you get beyond a certain point. If you're just reproducing an existing board, the process is a bit different, there's a lot more room for precision and established formulas. If I was teaching a class, I'd stick with reproducing a shape. Let 'em get into experimental mode after they've got a few boards under their belt.
One of the best longboards I ever had was nearly given away. It was maneuverable, but had no drive or projection until it snapped just forward of the fins. The extra stiffness & weight of the repair really made it come alive!
I know “back yarders” with home brew CNC machines in their garages being pushed by standard CAD/CAM packages. Real CAD, not the dumbed down Surfboard CAD that’s currently on the market. …And they’re not doing production by any stretch of the imagination. Dave underestimates what the back yarder is up to these days. Old guy. -Carl
Actually, out of annoyance- here’s the left side of a plug for a fin that was milled at home in a garage. It’s a fin designed in CAD utilizing a NACA hydrofoil at a 10% aspect ratio. Done by your yours truly in… 2007. Sheez Dave, get with it. -Carl
Huckleberry.....did you see the thread Stingray started about Bad Ass Cars?....It was started as a joke....a distraction....a broken surfboard... I've never met the guy that's posting all the great photos. Mike D......Keep posting Mike...I love that stuff. I'm stoked on the racing photos!
By chance I worked for a company back in 1987...yeah way back in the day....we were working with Carbon Fiber....way back then.....yeah...1987....I'm no angel....The wheels keep spinning.....
I'd love to see more photos and info on that CarlOlsen fin.
One of the best longboards I ever had was nearly given away. It was maneuverable, but had no drive or projection until it snapped just forward of the fins. The extra stiffness & weight of the repair really made it come alive!
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In the seventies, Terry Martin was shaping a board for my wife and told the story of the time that Joey Hamasaki brought in her favorite battered old magic board for reference. Terry warned her that the old board had a twist in it and had probably changed shape over the years. She took the new board but came back in a couple of weeks asking for the same shape but this time with the twist.
-Carl 