speed and lightness revisited

General Discussion
1

Hey Spazman,

Went surfing today on a new 6lb EPS shortboard I made and wanted to update this topic.

In recent years, most big guy shorties I’ve made/used were in the 7-7.5lb range and more recently I’ve made the switch to EPS.

After surfing my superlight today I confirm that RESPONSIVENESS is one of the keys to shortb speed but also totally agree with Halcyon that the other key is ACCELERATION. It felt like I got up to speed much quicker.

So bottom line…since youre accelerating quicker youre surfing faster more often. Top speed and how one approaches it, is another subject matter.

PS - with the lower swingweight, I even pulled a 360 at the end of a wave…havent done that in 15 years! Not bad for a 40 y/o dude.

2

Thats sweet. I am 16 and weigh 150 and i ride my 5’11 x 18 1/2 x 2 1/4. It probly weighs about 6 pounds because i glassed it with one layer or 4 on each side and a small footpatch and glass ons. Already have a million pressure dings though. But today i surf lowers and it was teh best waves i have had on it so far and i could definalty tell a difference between my other boards. So much more speed and way easy to manuver.

3

I like to disagree and argue just for the sake of it.

Lightness and speed have nothing to do with one another.

Lightness gives you quicker response, more feel, THAT’S ALL!

Speed is the product of the surfer’s skill and the shape of the board, designed correctly for the wave you are riding.

How so, you ask?

All you who ride fish's say it's the "fastest" board you have ever ridden.  Yes, it's possible, .......for those slow, mushy, crumbly waves you get in the summer.  And it has nothing to do with lightness.  Everything to do with increased planing surface for slow waves. 

You don't see fish's at Maalea Bay, Pipe, Sunset, and I think speed is a necessity for Mavericks ( haven't surfed there ever).  What you see in those spots are boards designed to handle the speed and power of the wave, are NOT lightweight, and correctly designed for rider control.

And lightness usually just gets you…dented boards, crumpled boards, and the need for MORE boards.

Get lightweight boards if you like the feel, and responsiveness, and the ego stroke, but DON’T tell me they are any faster than conventional weight boards.

Quicker and faster are two different things.

4
Quote:

I like to disagree and argue just for the sake of it.

Lightness and speed have nothing to do with one another.

Lightness gives you quicker response, more feel, THAT’S ALL!

Speed is the product of the surfer’s skill and the shape of the board, designed correctly for the wave you are riding.

How so, you ask?

All you who ride fish’s say it’s the “fastest” board you have ever ridden. Yes, it’s possible, …for those slow, mushy, crumbly waves you get in the summer. And it has nothing to do with lightness. Everything to do with increased planing surface for slow waves.

You don’t see fish’s at Maalea Bay, Pipe, Sunset, and I think speed is a necessity for Mavericks ( haven’t surfed there ever). What you see in those spots are boards designed to handle the speed and power of the wave, are NOT lightweight, and correctly designed for rider control.

And lightness usually just gets you…dented boards, crumpled boards, and the need for MORE boards.

Get lightweight boards if you like the feel, and responsiveness, and the ego stroke, but DON’T tell me they are any faster than conventional weight boards.

Quicker and faster are two different things.

On the flip side i see it the other way around. Lightness can affect how fast you go on a thruster. If you want to generate speed on a thruster you must turn it and use your rails and fins and your skill to drive it. I can feel this especially on my longer boards 7’0" semi guns and over. Its easier to turn/snap/reposition the board in critical sections, easier to set your rail line and drive it rail to rail. On a thruster this is critical to generate and maintain speed.

5

Just for the sake of argument …

You are prolly talking about 8lbs vs 6 lbs… 6lbs. easier, quicker, more reactive, more feel…

But you are also equating it to 6’ -9’ waves, where an 8lbs. board is of no handicap, IF you can surf bigger boards, are used to surfing 9’ gun boards, longboards, funboards, and mini gun boards.

If you are only used to surfing your 6’ trifins, you are prolly correct, for your surfing skill…limited at best.

In wave sizing of 6-9’, the added quickness and lightness is of no benefit, as you still have to wait to cover the distances required before making your next move. Extra lightness just makes you more jerky and snappy…NOT a good move in real waves.

Now I’d pick a 8lbs. 7’ mini gun over a 12lbs. 7’ mini gun, for sure…but 8lbs. is pretty standard 6 bottom, 6=6 deck and normal superlight blank weight.

Going lighter just makes you surf like a spastic jerk.

Just for the sake of argument, of course.

6
Quote:

Just for the sake of argument …

You are prolly talking about 8lbs vs 6 lbs… 6lbs. easier, quicker, more reactive, more feel…

But you are also equating it to 6’ -9’ waves, where an 8lbs. board is of no handicap, IF you can surf bigger boards, are used to surfing 9’ gun boards, longboards, funboards, and mini gun boards.

If you are only used to surfing your 6’ trifins, you are prolly correct, for your surfing skill…limited at best.

In wave sizing of 6-9’, the added quickness and lightness is of no benefit, as you still have to wait to cover the distances required before making your next move. Extra lightness just makes you more jerky and snappy…NOT a good move in real waves.

Now I’d pick a 8lbs. 7’ mini gun over a 12lbs. 7’ mini gun, for sure…but 8lbs. is pretty standard 6 bottom, 6=6 deck and normal superlight blank weight.

Going lighter just makes you surf like a spastic jerk.

Just for the sake of argument, of course.

Well living here on the North Shore of Oahu ive got plenty of places to test out my equipment and you and I both know that my analysis as well as what is “good surfing” is purely subjective. Me personally I like shortboards and modern high performance style surfing. While i do surf other types of boards I didnt like that type of surfing (longboards etc…) I do sometimes surf my 8’0" funboard at Makaha when im there for family gatherings but thats mostly as a crowd equalizer when i have to compete with guys on 10’+ boards. As far as my surfing skill id call it well above average or at least good enough to form an opinion.

Does lightness = spastic? I dont think so but thats subjective isnt it? I dont think i could ever call Tom Curren spastic and he rides ultralight boards.

As far as lightness I stand by my opinion and at the same time i concede that the ultralight surfboard is not for everyone.

7

J. Troy…touche’…I have been put in my place by the garbage can.

8
Quote:

J. Troy…touche’…I have been put in my place by the garbage can.

Nah, that was never my intention. I just wanted to put in my 2cents worth. :slight_smile:

9

I recently heard from hte riders that I made 2 different EPS boards for. One is a 14 pound nine footer and the other a 5’8" 4-1/2 pounder. Both have said the same thing, the boards are the absolute fastest they have ridden and can be accelerated instantly. I always felt light was a drawback for a board to have drive, old dog learning new tricks

10

Jim, your riders are mixing up “quickness” for “fastest”.

YOU KNOW… “fastest” is down the line speed, or drop in speed, measured with speedometer.

“Quickness” is response, liveliness, instant input to rider thoughts.

Two VERY different things.

Riders need to be educated!

And if they spend $500 on a new design, are they going to say…“it sucks!”…?

11

ok I got one more critical thought…

Speed is easy when riding more powerful waves…no need to pump very hard at all, except when trying to make difficult sections. I guess Im a bit biased cuz I normally ride weak waves here in FL…yesterday’s surf was fun but weak. When the waves are powerful I use the wave’s power to gain speed…here in FL you gotta grovel for speed a lot.

The original post should be reworded…

“Acceleration and Lightness”

12

There was an interesting article about surfboard lightness in Surfer Magazine April 04 Issue

13

These are riders with many years of contests and experience, so they know the difference between speed and acceleration. As far as complaints, this is what I strive to eliminate from people who come to me. My biggest complainer, Dale Dobson, he hates every board around the 29th of the month, rent time!

14

Jim, I’ve known a few decent surfers in my daze.

Most are very illiterate, can barely make a coherent sentence, and a train of thought or logic is the LEAST important concept in their lives.

They can never be sources for literary genius, and prefer to go…“hmprhhh, aaahhh” rather than any version of English 1 in junior high school.

15

Well Lee, at least my EPS riders are engineering, dental and business majors, poor Dale 9th grade drop out

16

jim ill agree with that…

coz my boards arent the cheapest , i tend to get good quality customers…

it has a few positives…

1 like you say , their usually successful in what they do , so good feedback…

2 there such fussy , padantic,perfectionists (they pay more, they want more) you have to make sure you deliver…so trains you to a higher standard…

then they go tell there rich buddies…

leedd i agreed with quite alot you said in your first post on this thread…

i can either make heavy or light boards , i have a choice…

your right a heavier board does feel more reassuring in 10’ plus bumpy waves,

but im not willing to give up all the benifits of a light board just to surf better in bumpy ugly waves,

ive always believed if your only gonna have a few boards , set them up for what your surfing 80% of the time , for that other 20% , well just means your board isnt optimal for those conditions…

youll like this one leedd…

a lighter board is faster when being surfed hard , quicker response time means you get 4 top to bottom combos instead of 3 …

so youve covered more ground in the same time…

which is faster??? its obvious…

but like you say leedd , for pure down the line with no turning involved and maybe a few bumps thrown in , yea a heavier board will be faster,

and lastly for the guy who just stands on his board like a sumo wrestler and says “giddy up boy” the weight wont make a shread of difference…

regards

BERT

17

Having the right equipment for the conditions you’re surfing is critical. Southern California is protected from the majority of local wave making systems. So, the majority of our surf is longer duration, better organized and cleaner than places that are not protected by Point Conception and the Channel Islands. Since control is easier in these conditions the compromise between stability and responsiveness trends towards quick less stable designs. Here the majority of performance surfers prefer quick, light, responsive boards. In more exposed regions, the majority of the surf will be more crossed up, shorter frequency and often choppier surface conditions. The tendency is towards more control and less nimble designs.

How fast do boards really need to be? They only need to be fast enough to manuever in the power zone of the wave. At San Onofre that’s not very fast. At Maleia it’s hauling ass. It really just comes down to horses for courses.

18

A simple look at history proves that the lighter a board is the more responsive. Weight can also provide speed but to the detriment of response. Meanwhile there are numerous ways to incorperate speed without the detriment of weight in the shape and fins. Todays perfomance boards use numerous shape advantages to create speed at reduced weights over the past. As shapes, composite technology and rider technique improve in the future we will move ever closer to the ideal board weight of 0.

19

Funny how you guys all agree about …“more turns per wave, more distance covered, equals more speed”…

Of course, so do I.

But 6 months ago, there was general agreement on “SpeedSurfing”…the idea of trim and riding high for the most speed!

And I was in the minority, saying exactly the first paragraph!

Guys, for sure, light is right. But it’s not necessarily faster!

20

With all due respect, in high performance surfing, trim is dead. I’ve seen Mr. Slater beat what I thought were close outs at Sebastian Inlet without using trim once.