Rich, I think you’re spot-on with that. I surf single fins 99% of my sessions of the year, and this is the lowest drag I’ve ever felt.
I stay away from 2+1 longboards precisely because I can feel the drag and its not the feeling I want.
I think the 5-fin setup I’d tried was not hanging because of drag, though. Toe-in and cant are minimal, and the 5th fin (as advertised) creates just the right amount of turbulence that breaks up the drag coming off the others. I think it was slow off the top primarily because I was surfing from a trimmed position - as a dedicated longboarder, I move my back foot back for bottom turns, turn from the middle or nose on a wall, and put a front foot at the centerline and a back foot 18" ahead of the fins to come off the top, weighting the rail more than pivoting the fin. My own style was the limiting factor more than anything else.
And Mark, I wish I had a good photo of the raked 4" 'ers, they’re not thinned out & flexy much at all - they’re good solid fins that Robin sent me, knowing I’m right at 100 kilos. I really felt it was the trailer that was keeping me moving forward despite gravity , not the other way 'round.
Edit: Larry, your templates with the carbon look great. I’ve always hated the feel of cutaways, as for me they drive through the first 2/3 of a turn, and then die as I lose drive, but I’m looking at those 4 in a reversed setup - pivots front & rakes back for drive
One thing’s clear already, though…a light longboard with neutral tail rocker and soft rails is a great platform for testing fin setups…
That looks great… I have been drawing fin templates over the last few days trying to picture something I can use on the board TFE and I are building for Ben last week I drew something nearly identical to this after seeing the shorts flicks posted in the Hull Moovs thread
there is one vid where near the start someone walks in front of the camera with a red board. If you tilt that shape so it sits more vertically and play with the lines it creates you get a shape nearly identical to this fin… well I did anyway… then looking at the shape I thought to myself “Ive just drawn and sharks pectoral fin” and got really excited about it.
What I was thinking about doing that is slightly different from this one was cutting a slight relief in the trailing edge like skip fry’s fish keels… maybe 1.5" deep x .75" high
Halcyon, Nice post, I have enjoyed reading a few things you have posted. I can sense the passion of your enjoyment in making fins with a artistic flair. Very refreshing to see a person who is very articulate in how they express their thoughts. Also congratulation on your write up in the paper.
Lee Vanderhurst has one of the nicest sets of thruster fins I’ve seen that were made by Rich. They are made of carbon fiber and have a subtle spiral twist in them.
sorry I came over as a bit of a plonker.My comments about ‘third generation’ was a stupid throw and I shouldn’t have speculated about the rear fins without at the very least making sure they are the same as the shape I tried as rear quad fins (which felt like they were made of putty when riding the board).
Love the way Probox is going with the fins selection which really builds on the strengths of the probox system. I also like being able to get things direct from you rather than a local distributor.
WWMark, Thank you for your post, I didn’t take it personal. I know people get alot of HYPE,especially in this industry which is moving pretty fast which then confuses people who by products by Hype and not facts. I don’t like to market test products because if things turn out negective from people who buy your products with hard earn money, you loose their trust and people won’t believe what you say later with products you do. In this case both fins were good but I wanted to make them better for the end user and Solosurfer. When people like Benny are excited after using my product it makes my day. And when people like you make a post like you did I respect that and it makes my day also and shows me that you guys recognize my passion for what I do and I just want to share new things with new friends in hopes they experience the STOKE I am so lucky to experience daily. MAHALO
Too late to expand on it now since I need to get some sleep but Solo & Larry’s new fin works insane!!! I’m using it in a 5’8" single.
Wow - same fin on a 5’8" with hard rails and a 10’1" with soft. That’s pretty cool. Jettylocal, any difference you feel between frontside & back? Any hang-ups using a 9" fin in such a small board (although its an eye-fooler at 9", in person you’d swear its no bigger than 7.5 or 8") ?
Rich, your templates with the carbon look great. I’ve always hated the feel of cutaways, as for me they drive through the first 2/3 of a turn, and then die as I lose drive, but I’m looking at those 4 in a reversed setup - pivots front & rakes back for drive I know you can make them thick…I’ve seen Big Al’s
Did I miss an image somewhere in this thread as I did not see Rich’s templates in carbon, were you referring to the ones that Larry posted?
Robin, you’re absolutely right. The fins I was talking about were Larry’s, not Rich’s and I edited my post.
Fingers moving faster than brain again, I’m afraid…thats nothing new
Would you set those up the way Larry did with the bigger fins in the back, or would you switch them back to front? Have you tried the same basic fin without the cutaway? I also notice that all 4 inserts are black ones… Thanks
Did I read you right, Noel, that the thicker foil had less drive?
Do you guys have an overhead shot of both generations’ foils?
I wanted the fiberglass fin to mimic the performance of the starfin (winged keel) so I blunted the leading edge of the fiberglass fin to create a hold power in fiberglass fin that would be similar to that of the wings on the winged keel. I also wanted a fin that was not as sensitive to tail rocker and leash grabbing.
Larry changed the foil in the leading edge only after hearing some of my feedback on the performance of the the first fins. Obviously he got it right. I am still enjoying the original and look forward to the second generation.
I haven’t seen how this new Spitfire fin is foiled but for most surf situations. Having the vertical cord at about 25% back off the leading edge and keeping that leading edge nice a full will make for a fin that won’t stall at a high angle of attack and have about as much drive as you can expect out of such a high aspect fin.
The spitfires that I made for Cheyne were done with various foils and composite constuction He requested a super speed foil from a very stiff panel of Carbon/Glass/Epoxy for his tow in boards. I made him several. He paddle surfed them on big Haliewa swell this winter and gave glowing reports. They are quite thin and are foiled for the big stuff though. He likes the drive of the starfin on smaller surf. I can see why. The fin will hold such a high angle of attack and turn with such a quick momentary pivoting feel that it is a very special piece of work. I have on an egg that I surf at beach breaks that works so so sweet. I can surf it like a shortboard or a long board. It’s just great in moderate surf. A very upright fin is great for speed and quick turning. But when it comes to drive you need a board like Mccoy shapes for single fins. You can forget about surfing in kelp with deep upright fin or one with wings.
Those fins are actually my design, Larry makes them for me.
The reality is that the cutaway is the exact same fin as the elliptical you got from me except with the addition of the cutaway. The smaller fin is the same one as yours.
Yes! I set them up the opposite to what Larry showed in the post except when the surf gets bigger then I switch them around to the same as he shows.
Yes! I have tried the same setup with just the elliptical version as the larger fin and it still works really well with a little more drive but not quite as pivoty. That was the first way I rode them before I added the cutaway, which I found really helped loosen things up a little more without sacrificing too much drive. The cutaway version feels a little faster but that is probably due to the fact that it has less wetted surface.
Larry likes to set them up with different cant angles than I use over here, which makes sense given the difference in the conditions. A lot of the time he actually uses 8 degree up front. Over here we tend to use 4 degree in the back and 6 degree in the front. But on the beachbreaks we sometimes go up 2 degrees on each depending on how loose you want it to be. His placements tend to vary a little as well where they more commonly put the cluster a little closer together, normally about 1/2" closer than I prefer. But that is the beauty of playing with fins there are so many options and it’s all a matter of dialing in what you are trying to achieve, sure makes for a lot of fun playing with them!
Too late to expand on it now since I need to get some sleep but Solo & Larry’s new fin works insane!!! I’m using it in a 5’8" single.
Wow - same fin on a 5’8" with hard rails and a 10’1" with soft. That’s pretty cool. Jettylocal, any difference you feel between frontside & back? Any hang-ups using a 9" fin in such a small board (although its an eye-fooler at 9", in person you’d swear its no bigger than 7.5 or 8") ?
I can’t wait to try it in my 7’1 Nugget…
I haven’t wanted to write a complete review of my experiences on the fin because I just haven’t had enough sessions on it yet. Here are my first impressions though… (by the way, this board is usually ridden with either a starfin or an 8.5" Skip Frye Flex).
First off, Solo’s fin is very fast…embarassing to admit this but in my first session I even did a few “wheelies” on takeoffs because I wasn’t ready for it to be so lively. On frontside roundhouse cutbacks this is the first fin I’ve tried that I can really square off and hit the soup on a rebound. With my other two fins the first 3/4’s of the cutback go great but it seems like I have to nurse it off the whitewater or just hook it in front instead of hitting it. Although I’m certainly not what you’d call an aerialist by any stretch of the imagination, my board with Solo’s fin is so quick that I have actually launched a few singlefin airs. To answer your question about backside versus front, it goes really well both ways. Backside off the lips feel great on this fin. Regarding drawbacks, the only one I’ve found so far is the same one that the starfin suffers from…they wouldn’t be my first choice in a really kelpy area due the upright nature of the fin.
I really need a few more sessions on the fin to give it a full rundown but it’s been great so far. I’d recommend it to anyone looking for a high performance ride.
I haven’t seen how this new Spitfire fin is foiled but for most surf situations. Having the vertical cord at about 25% back off the leading edge and keeping that leading edge nice a full will make for a fin that won’t stall at a high angle of attack and have about as much drive as you can expect out of such a high aspect fin.
The spitfires that I made for Cheyne were done with various foils and composite constuction He requested a super speed foil from a very stiff panel of Carbon/Glass/Epoxy for his tow in boards. I made him several. He paddle surfed them on big Haliewa swell this winter and gave glowing reports. They are quite thin and are foiled for the big stuff though. He likes the drive of the starfin on smaller surf. I can see why. The fin will hold such a high angle of attack and turn with such a quick momentary pivoting feel that it is a very special piece of work. I have on an egg that I surf at beach breaks that works so so sweet. I can surf it like a shortboard or a long board. It’s just great in moderate surf. A very upright fin is great for speed and quick turning. But when it comes to drive you need a board like Mccoy shapes for single fins. You can forget about surfing in kelp with deep upright fin or one with wings.
Mahalo, Rich
Good speaking with you again Rich. Good info. So true on kelp, the wingless spit does not catch leashes as bad as the star fin. Your fin knowledge and input are always welcomed.
So since this up and going I figure I should weigh in with my half baked opinions. I have one of the Spitfires, and like Jettylocal, am probably a bit premature in my overall judgement as I haven’t ridden it much or in reasonable conditions over the last couple of weeks, but what the hell. First up, I’m LOVING my winged keel- I’ve ridden my Horan board with the starfin even more than my fish over the last few months, so there’s my bias. I wasn’t expecting the Spitfire to hold in as well as the starfin but I’m surprised at how much bite it has, and yes, I’ll back Benny and Jetty up on the speed thing-even in the mushy little beachie I rode, the board felt waaay quicker (and I swear I felt less drag paddling). I’m definitely stoked on the thought of trying it on waves comprable to what I’ve ridden my starfin in (I have to make the run to San Diego this week so I think I’ll get a good shot on it) but even at this early stage in the relationship, it’s a keeper. Larry- thanks to you as well, it’s a beautiful piece of fibreglass art. Full report by the weekend I swear.
How does someone in Australia obtain one of these interesting fins? I have a few boards (5’10" fish with centre box and fcs side fins, Swift Neil Purchase 5’10" widow and a 6’4" CI like round tail single) which would likely benefit from the drive offered.
Consafos, I am please you like the fin I produced for Solosurfer. Have a safe surf trip to San Diego. Looking forward to hearing more about your surfing experinces with the Spitfire Fin.
Cuttlefish, If you cant get them in Australia, then the guys might post some dims or you could print out some of the posted pics, buy some blanks and make them yourself.
Ex- windsurfer fins might be an easy conversion too.
A fine wire leader might remove the kelp problem… but you guys have probably tried it before.
SF.
Quote:
How does someone in Australia obtain one of these interesting fins? I have a few boards (5’10" fish with centre box and fcs side fins, Swift Neil Purchase 5’10" widow and a 6’4" CI like round tail single) which would likely benefit from the drive offered.
, not the other way 'round.
