This is a model made by Dale Solomonson a few years? back.
Have fun paddling that thing thru the break, out to the lineup, then snake around finding a wave to yourself. Floatation not a plus there.
Standup, need for flex tail is much less important, as your legs can push and absorb, flex and give, while a kneerider needs all that to keep a good flow going.
Got that little baby in my office…Too many people picked it up and tried flexing the tail so it started to fatigue. It’s now up on a shelf where little grubby fingers are not allowed. It’s an exaggerated model of what George uses on his sail boards. Basically, a false deck in the tail area to allow twist and unfettered flex. On the real boards the rails also flex (I assume) like his edge kneeboards. The deck is supported by a spine along the stringer and cantellevered to the rail pontoons.
I think Dale sent it to me to inspire me to make a flexy stub. The engineering and materials were way beyond my abilities so I abandoned the false deck idea. However…
The whole idea of a simple flextail standup board is an attainable goal if you design the craft so that you don’t have to stand on the tail to turn. That is where using a hull or hull-like design will work. You just need to live with the limitations: they will not make a single fin hull turn like a thruster and they will work best on a reef or point setting with a smooth, lined up wave. You also have to surf them with a carving style. The hippity-hop or unweighting style that works for a multi-fin board over flexes the tail and they wash out.
What they will do is shorten the turning radius of a single fin, allow a wider tailed board to work in a wider range of conditions, smooth the transition between turns, keep your speed through turns, and hold better in the tube. I really could feel a difference in both the kneelo and standup versions I rode.
I’ve got a couple in mind that I’m planning to make this winter. I don’t think the flex tail is a design that would change how anyone thinks about high performance but they have a neat feel that you can’t get with a stiff design.
"…What they will do is shorten the turning radius of a single fin, allow a wider tailed board to work in a wider range of conditions, smooth the transition between turns, keep your speed through turns, and hold better in the tube.
…I really could feel a difference in both the kneelo and standup versions I rode. …"
Hi LeeV !!
do you have any photos of those , by any chance ??
[especially if you have made a “stubbie” ]…I’d be VERY keen to SEE those , please !
cheers !
ben
Sorry Ben. It never entered my mind to photograph the stuff I made or rode…I will post the new ones.
thanks LeeV ! I look forward to seeing that !!
Also …
I just remembered …
this one , by Mark Rabbidge , was in the “resources …articles” section here at Sways … [thanks , Platty! and Australian Longboarding Magazine ! ] Do you know what issue it was please , Dave ? [I may be able to scan a bigger version of that picture , if I can find the article !]
cheers !
ben
Quote:
Got that little baby in my office…Too many people picked it up and tried flexing the tail so it started to fatigue. It’s now up on a shelf where little grubby fingers are not allowed. It’s an exaggerated model of what George uses on his sail boards. Basically, a false deck in the tail area to allow twist and unfettered flex. On the real boards the rails also flex (I assume) like his edge kneeboards. The deck is supported by a spine along the stringer and cantellevered to the rail pontoons.
I think Dale sent it to me to inspire me to make a flexy stub. The engineering and materials were way beyond my abilities so I abandoned the false deck idea. However…
The whole idea of a simple flextail standup board is an attainable goal if you design the craft so that you don’t have to stand on the tail to turn. That is where using a hull or hull-like design will work. You just need to live with the limitations: they will not make a single fin hull turn like a thruster and they will work best on a reef or point setting with a smooth, lined up wave. You also have to surf them with a carving style. The hippity-hop or unweighting style that works for a multi-fin board over flexes the tail and they wash out.
What they will do is shorten the turning radius of a single fin, allow a wider tailed board to work in a wider range of conditions, smooth the transition between turns, keep your speed through turns, and hold better in the tube. I really could feel a difference in both the kneelo and standup versions I rode.
I’ve got a couple in mind that I’m planning to make this winter. I don’t think the flex tail is a design that would change how anyone thinks about high performance but they have a neat feel that you can’t get with a stiff design… Check out the TinkerTail unique split tail rigid deck over flex tail invented and patented in 1969 by Bob Tinkler for stand up surfborders making the transition from George Greenough’s knee spoonflex to the TinkerTail design function of flex www.SurfSyndicate.com by rethink performance from out side of the 3D design BOX. being copyied by Dale S… and George is the sincerest form of flattery" its not bragging if you did it". TTail did it and is doing it.
SurfSyndicate,
No disrespect to you, but the TinklerTail design never once entered my mind when I made that 10" model for LeeV.
Also… from numerous discussions with George Greenough and Mark Thomson, I can say with assurance they have no interest in copying your efforts.
George gives credit to nature for many of his ideas. Mark derives much of his inspiration for surfboard design from his high performance surf mats.
Replying to: Re: [flexspoon] Standup Greenough flex board by LeeV Post: Got that little baby in my office…Too many people picked it up and tried flexing the tail so it started to fatigue. It’s now up on a shelf where little grubby fingers are not allowed. It’s an exaggerated model of what George uses on his sail boards. Basically, a false deck in the tail area to allow twist and unfettered flex. On the real boards the rails also flex (I assume) like his edge kneeboards. The deck is supported by a spine along the stringer and cantellevered to the rail pontoons.
I think Dale sent it to me to inspire me to make a flexy stub. The engineering and materials were way beyond my abilities so I abandoned the false deck idea. However…
The whole idea of a simple flextail standup board is an attainable goal if you design the craft so that you don’t have to stand on the tail to turn. That is where using a hull or hull-like design will work. You just need to live with the limitations: they will not make a single fin hull turn like a thruster and they will work best on a reef or point setting with a smooth, lined up wave. You also have to surf them with a carving style. The hippity-hop or unweighting style that works for a multi-fin board over flexes the tail and they wash out.
What they will do is shorten the turning radius of a single fin, allow a wider tailed board to work in a wider range of conditions, smooth the transition between turns, keep your speed through turns, and hold better in the tube. I really could feel a difference in both the kneelo and standup versions I rode.
I’ve got a couple in mind that I’m planning to make this winter. I don’t think the flex tail is a design that would change how anyone thinks about high performance but they have a neat feel that you can’t get with a stiff design.
Hi LeeV It may be that the design forums in the surfing mags in the 60’s and 70’s on the tinklertail splitplane flex tails the real cross over solution from knees to standing up on George’s spoon flex concept as the only real functional flex tail solution invented and built by Bob Tinkler way back in the 6o’s and 70’s were not read by the latter day flex designers that are now trying to resolve the same flex problem already solved by Bob Tinkler with his splitplane TTail flextails design, so .
Please read as required reading on flex design innovation of the splitplane independent deck and flex panel solution invented by Bob Tinkler in applying functional flex to stand up surfboards. Bob Tinkler his TinklerTail design and it’s history and the time line on Tinkler’s discovery,George was still kneeling and standing on his flexable Panel see interview done George in the 90’s ,just to keep it all stright for the publics true History. Tinkler’s splitplane flextail invention as a surfboard shaper and designer, Bob designed and built the first and “The only proven solution for stand up surfing. 1969-2006 credit where credit is due” If in fact George and Mark T. and neat little model builders are now using the TTail splitplane design on sailboards and Mark T on his surfboards the information could have came from the TinklerTail grape vine back when Bob Tinkler showed his new unique design of the splitplane surfboard to George and the Austrailia Tracks Mag artical TinklerTails"Functional Flex For Surfboards" in 1978-80 tinkler had been building and surfing his splitplane design in San Diego since 1969 The board shapes have changed over the years but the TinklerTail is still the TinklerTail . " if it looks like a TinklerTail and it works like a TinklerTail and it’s hydrodynamics are described like a TinklerTail well it is a TinklerTail ,no matter who comes along later on and trys to put their names or clams on it. The proof is in the TinklerTail R&D research history, if any one is interested in the facts or the true evolution ,on the idea of using flex in surfboards for greater surfing performance. George gave us flex surfing on his knees, but not for stand up surfers. TinklerTails did That for us. its simple if you just do the math.
FYI some Q&A Greenough flex design info. and clarifications on flex designs i.e. BobTinkler’s splitplane the original flextail solution for standing up surfing and George’s single flex plane concept a Rewrite: From an Interview in "windsurfing magazine "with George Greenough, about his flexible spoon concept.
Interviewer: What’s the spoon’s hull shape like?
George: I built two different styles of spoons 1965 to 1970 –built for powerful rotating types of waves like Rincon and Honolua Bay. In 1970 the design was changed to work well in all types of waves. This is the design that I blew up for the windsurfing spoon. The windsurfing one is basically the same except the single concave runs right through. Remember the hull deforms under load depending on how you load it. archived photos by TTail
Interviewer: How are they built?
George: The spoon is built from the bottom up. This is real good for testing the flex, as I build two boards, the first one set up with a good guess on the amount of flex I mite need. This worked well. The second board, I went more and less flex as a check. The first two were S-glass/epoxy, mostly solid glass except for the solid foam beam glassed down the center and foam rim, these rode well .Then I went to carbon fiber in the mid 1970’s .
Interviewer: Of all the spoons you’ve built, which is your favorite one?
George: The 6’7”
Interviewer: Why?
George: I get the biggest rush off it.
Interviewer: what do the pros think of it?
George: Well the best one is “ It would be faster sideways than forwards.” Most of the ones I’ve heard are: “ It won’t work; the tail’s too wide” They ‘re used to riding a blown-up surfboard; I’m using a blown-up spoon kneeboard. My mast is mounted further aft and stepped on the bottom; Theirs is stepped on the deck and further forward. I’m standing on the bottom; they stand on the top.
Interviewer: How does the spoon work compared to Bob Tinkler’s FlexTail concept?
George: Well the Tinkler Tail uses springs to control the flex in the tail; that can be adjusted by the surfer’s to suit a person’s weight and wave conditions and the fins are glassed on to a bottom panel that the three springs bear against, and are mounted in it’s over hanging deck design.
The spoon on the other hand has a box-shaped section glassed down the center ,to carry the fore and aft loading, as well as the torque from the fin. With the center beam carrying the fins side loading, the two sides will flex independently of each other and aren’t, affected by the fin loading. There are no springs used to control the flex; this is done with how the sides are tapered. Watch how a fish swims and flexes his fin; that’s how the sides flex. The fin flex matches the sides; otherwise you’ve got control problems.
THE END.
and
THE NEW BEGINNING OF THE FLEXREVOLUTION by Bob TinklerTail.
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(This post was edited by SurfSyndicate on May 20, 2006, 7:43 PM)
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south wales (old)
Journeyman
May 20, 2006, 7:42 PM
Post #2 of 3 (326 views)
Re: [SurfSyndicate] Greenough flexspoon concept and the TinklerTail deck over flex tail standup solution Bob Tinkler’s R&D flextail cocept for surfboard and sailboard designs[In reply to] Reply (login)
why can’t isee any photos, i know they’re there. and honestly are these photos any diff to your old ones? i wouldn’t ask but
i can’t see 'em.
tom
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Journeyman
May 23, 2006, 9:09 PM
Post #3 of 3 (138 views)
Re: [pander] Greenough flexspoon concept and the TinklerTail deck over flex tail standup solution Bob Tinkler’s R&D flextail cocept for surfboard and sailboard designs[In reply to] Reply (login)
Hi Tom ,If you just click on down load images, at top right . I tested it out and it works ok . Hope this helps you out mate all the best .
Plus some photos of George and Bob Mac with me showing them my new design and flex solution construction R&D of my splitplane flextail invention ,
I needed this splitplane to adapt the spoon design for stand up surfing .
I know 101 ways that flex in stand up surfboards don’t work.
I built all of them failed ,until my splitplane deck over rocker panel success
" TinkerTail’s Stay Tuned" TTG4CUSTOM
Hi Dale I do like the 10" model made I never did a small model of my TinklerTail they were always working models that I surfed. your model looks real good a nice job Dale. And the misunderstandings on the thing about Mark T and George G. copy of the TTails rigid deck over the flex panel and the reason I bring this up ,is only because of a post on Swaylocks " Donovan flex tail built by Mark Thomson with George Greenough’s advice so it says.
I have the greatest of respect for George and the spoon design he invented and I have told him so.
Dale you will find the post in the “Australian FlexTails” thread. check it out and then you will know how all this conversation started and why I felt the need to clear it up regarding the time frames for posterity and the true stand up splitplane flex tail innovation history. And for all the work done by the TinklerTail R&D to crack the code of flex for the stand up surfer and what I had to start this quest was Georg’s glass single flex plane concept . I feel stoked in what I have accomplished and done for surfing and surfers and the door that the TinklerTail opened for stand up power surfing of the future . And now that the cost of building a TinklerTail has come down and the ease of building them is now here. And I as any shaper designer would feel about his design work am stoked to see so much interest in flex now days .
