It’s been a while since I posted a design question and i feel a need to pick your brains. I’ve been thinking a lot about Asymmetrical design for about a year now but haven’t made a move to build one yet. I thought about flex for a while but $$$$ cost was a big factor in not going forward with it. So my thoughts are leaning more and more with going forward and building a true Asymmetrical. I was checking the Archives and the one post from last november “Your thoughts on symmetry” was great Drew had written about snowboards and stance heal toe. I personally think snow and water are so far apart when it comes to design “Apples and Oranges” … Waves are moving and snow isn’t plane and simple. I believe we as surfers are always “Working at mastering Surfing” hence "Ergonomically Design Surfboards. Or Surfergonomically thru Asymmetrical Design… A outline, foil, rail and tail that would fit each persons personal stance and style. Like myself i tend to like a shorter wider sq tail for back side with wide point back and less nose. Then if i’m surfing frontside I lean more to a longer roundpin with a fuller nose and a wide point at center. I like a softer rail frontside and a harder rail backside. So am I able to design a board that would surf better then a symmetrical board??? Your thoughts… Rob
You know I always figured the same in terms of outline shape. The thing I would think about is the difference of where your feet go on a back side turn or cutback as opposed to front side. I get a lot of punch out of the back side with my back foot on the outside of the tail and my front foot towards the inside rail, where with a frontside turn my back foot is coser to the inside rail and front foot towards the outside. Backside more punch, frontside more control and accuracy. I think there’s alot of potential in the assemetrical idea. Give it a try .
Shorter rail line for the heel side, softer rails heel side, more toe on the heel side fin, more hip on the heel side outline (width pulled back), smaller fin on the heel side. On rockers, I never liked to mess with those to much when it came to asymetrics. These other aspects give you plenty to work with. Am I forgetting anything else? Probably. Anyway, a correct combination of the above attributes will give you high performance asymmetry.
Well Mr. Brown, I say go for it!!! Prove me wrong. I’m tired of disproving assymetry. But here’s a few things to think about in your quest. The reason that Assymetry was introduced into snowboards was the fact that the slalom racers were using angles that approched 45 to 60 degrees. Once the feet get turned at such a drastic degree the radius of the sidecut (rail) should (early designers thought) be offset to alighn with the severly angled feet. It made sense and still does, at least in theory. Keep in mind that the the average snowboarder has foot angles somewhere around 0 -10 degrees for the back, and 10 - 30 degrees for the front, thus we can see little use for an offcenter radius. My point is is you have to keep in mind where your feet are on the surfboard. The more sever the angles the more sense it makes. However most surfers that i have ever seen have feet angles similiar to the freestyle snowboarder and don’t come anywhere near the severity of the alpine racers on their thin boards. The wider the board, the less reason to have assymetry. So perhaps in the scheme of things assymetry on a surfboarrd could indeed be an aspect of surfboard design that, when coupled with the right rider, rding style, and wave, might just might, make some sense. Good luck Drew aka. defender of symmetry
Thanks for the info and the ideas. I’m in Maui shaping and doing a few shaping lessons so what better time then now to play with design. Charlie Smith who shapes for Local Motion has a few that he built in the past and is bringing them in tomorrow. He built a bunch of windsurf boards and surfboards so i’m hopping he has some good ideas to use. The one thing i am wondering about is Greg you said soft on heal side ?? I have always liked a harder rail on heal side??.But thats me I tend to surf front foot I guess it’s that 70’s style and all the long boarding I do. The board will be a 6’2 x 18.5 x 2.25 that much i do know. Drew i do understand you points and I’ll let you know what happens. Thanks again. Rob
I might add that assymetry in snowboards came and went a long time ago… PS. 8" of freshies in town today. Heading for the mountains! regards, Håvard
Yo Rob…good to see you are well.I made a board for myself back in the late sixties that went great.I am a goofy foot and had a good frontside bottom turn and a weak backside turn.As I remember the board was a 7’6" low rocker egg single fin around 22 inches wide.Any way it was a fat round tail on the right (backside) with soft rails… and a square tail with hard edges on the frontside.Soft vee in the tail.Later on I put one of those little fins (Wave Set Fin System?) and messed around with “side slipping”.I rode that board for 2 years.What ever happened to controlled sideslipping anyway??Some of the better guys would use this manuever to slip right down into the pocket.Herbie Fletcher and Sid Madden had it down.
Snowboarding rules!!!
“The reason that Assymetry was introduced into snowboards was the fact that the slalom racers were using angles that approched 45 to 60 degrees.” …not to be an asshole but “were” using?
Yesterday was 18" at White Pass…I rode my 180 cm…And no crowds…I’m loving life… http://www.hollowsurfboards.com
Rob, The softer backside is somnething we used in asymetrical boards for years and in many symetical ones as well. The theory being that you tend to drive deeper on the heel side and forcing more board into the water which is adventageous backside. This puts more rocker and rail line curve in the water making the board respond better on the heel side. It certainly is an easy theory to test. Just sand some edge off the heel side of an existing board. This is how we came to the above conclusion. But everyone is different. Maybe for you it is different and there’s an easy way to tell. Test.