Anyone have one of these boards? How do they ride? I’m thinking about getting a 10 ft YH7. Any Input on the Swizzle is appreciated.
Aloha,
Al
The Swizzle is a neat board. I am really surprised that no one on this site has responded to your question. Last summer a friend of mine had one, I rode it a bit. I really only got a chance to ride it in small surf, but it was a blast. I also got to watch another of my good friends just plain kill it on the thing several sessions. For being such an odd shape, they work incredibly well. Noseride, turn, whatever you want. I would go as far to call it the best soft board I’ve ridden. -Carl
I got the same response when I asked a couple of years ago. Carl, you used a similar cut-away outline on your finless stealth board…any similarity?
I have one from about three years ago. My only regret is that I didn’t have Tom(Y) sign it! I asked him why it came with a fin because he had originally designed it to be ridden finless. He said that he’s getting a bit older now so using a fin is ok. It has performed especially well for me when I was 3 weeks out of surgery with a new stainless steel rod in my broken femur. I belly rode my 10’0" Swizzle on a point break and could belly turn it from the nose while hanging chin, thanks to the sidecut. I never told the doctor, of course. It surfs real interesting while standing. Love, Delbert Pumpernickel
NO WAY! The swizzle was designed to be ridden finless??? I took one look at that thing and thought… hmmm finless? Yep, it works pretty frigging good as finless board, actually pretty amazingly well. LeeV- Yes the swizzle was one of the inspirations for the finless board that you asked about. The other inspiration was the side cut on snowboards. I really liked the way the water flow would theoretically pull a reversed outline into the face of a wave. Also the bodyboard inspired vacuum rails in the tail of the swizzle was interesting also. Although the reverse outline works great on the swizzle, I abandoned it, It was non fuctional on my board because the nose had to be so wide and it would catch at the wide point constantly. I actually have built 2 other finless boards that I have been intending to upload. This summer I am definitely making a couple more, one of them being a longboard. The kelp around here in my parts is just terrible in the summer, hence no fins ehh? -Carl
A couple of years ago, I was told that Dale Velzy had shaped some refined foam and glass versions of the famous finless Hawaiian “Hot Curl” design. The word was that he had a few clients who were happily riding them on a regular basis in semi-isolation… higher quality, longer waves.
I just got done surfing two foot clean waves this morning on my YHP5 with a star fin in it.It is alot of fun, they take some getting used to.Once you have them dialed in they work great .I have three[10’2’‘yhp5,9’3’‘yhp5,8’11’‘yhp6]My favorite is the 10’2’'.i switch back and forth between conventional boards and swizzles.The swizzles seem a little faster but require a little more focus while turning.I have left posts on them in the past but all were met with negetive or closed minded replies.This is the first time i can recall them being viewed on a positive note.They seemed to be viewed as something people are afraid to amitt that they like.I have three and I am not ashamed to say I like riding them.I have not seen a yhp7 yet ,I know that they are of a different construction as the 5 and 6 but still soft.I hope this helps.Let me know if you like the yhp7.
I added a swizzle outline to my extensive tank testing of potential X-1 outlines last night. Included a comparison are Simmons, Hotcurl, and olo outlines. After in-depth analysis of the planing data set shows the Simmons outline to be the most efficient, followed by the olo, Hotcurl and the swizzle last. Seems Simmons and the Navy were right: straight, parallel outlines are “faster” than pulled outlines…
“Hold-a-Line” testing next…(gotta hurry, my wife wants to heat the pool up and we all know that heat and parafin don’t mix).
LeeV- I have been meaning to build a test tank, I’ve got a few rough sketchs and such, but haven’t committed to building one yet. Got any pictures of yours? I’d love to see one. Thanks -Carl.
P.S. When it comes to straight out hauling ass, (and straight lines) take a peek at Greenough’s Spoon template. I have a friend that uses pretty much a spoon template in combination with very flat rockers to build some seriously fast ass sh*t. Ditto on the Lis fish templates. 
My tank is about 30 feet long and kidney shaped with a jacuzzi at one end…I’ve been taking my parafin models and shoving them with the same relative initial velocity…the one that goes the farthest wins! After 10 trials, the outcomes are pretty much confirmed. The next step is to “finger” surf them on edge to see if I can feel any difference.
Low tech, stupid? Maybe, but you’d be surprised at the “feels” you get. I’ve pushed those old foam paddle boards around in circles to test different rail shapes. Start square and then sand them down to eggs. Pretty enlightening. It’d be great to instrument them or film them through plexiglass but I figured that “this one holds better” worked just as well as resistance in kilograms/sec/sec for me.
I’m trying to build a 9 foot finless cruiser for the SA2004…flat rocker, rounded v running off the tail, chined rails to the last third where they will be knifey egg to blend with the v. I’m also playing with thin paipo like rails in the tail so when you push it up on a rail or the wave face steepens the fins will engage for a little more traction…just a goof but it would work great in high tide lumps where I surf…
Dear Lee,
Hmmm… a 30 ft. long pool… and kidney shaped?
Along with color photos, a detailed map and your homes address... could you please post your next scheduled maintenance, i.e. when it needs to be completely drained? Its more convenient for all concerned if pool cleaning coincides with a home owner`s vacation. 2-3 weeks (out-of-state) would be superb.
Oh yeah… the pool`s depth gradation and a brief description of wall-to-wall transitions would be nice, too. Gunite or painted? Style of coping? Removeable diving board?
P.S. Don`t say a word about any of this to Mr. Spitzer…
Lee, I modified one of my longboards a while back to be a deep “V” hotcurl style board. Basically I took the core of an old surfboard, glued it to the bottom, and reshaped. I glassed it with a layer of 6oz and suncure and was surfing it before dark. I had about 4" of V exiting the tail, the rocker @ the tip of the tail was 0. The V blended into the boards original belly bottom/round 60/40 rails very nicely. The board worked Killer! a little slidy, but it was neat 'cause the board had an interesting side-slipping feeling to it, almost like you were going to slide out, but you never did. I eventually cut all of the V bottom off the bottom of the board, sanded and reglossed it. (the experiment was over)
I think that I was going to make another board like that I would make it out of the heaviest foam I could find, and glass the hell out of it. Either that or make it out of wood, like the original hotcurls. The problem with the light foam board was that it didn’t sit deep enough in the water, with the super thick tail, it was like being on a boat. I think if you could make the board sit deeper in the water, you could increase the pressure around the keel area, making it more effective. -Carl
Carl,
Thanks for the weight advice, its something I hadn’t thought of. Since the “Challenge” requires I start with natural rocker, I will have to carve off a lot of bottom to flatten the rocker so that will take a lot of float out of the board. I will definately go with denser foam and a lot of 6 oz glass. Do you remember about how wide the tail block was on your hotcurl?
Lee
Lee,
When I was experimenting with Hot Curl kneeboards, I reduced unwanted extra flotation by removing foam from the deck. It isn`t necessary to build them heavy and thick.
There are some very useful insights on historical Hot Curl theory/design in past issues of The Surfer`s Journal:
“Hot Curl: Surfboard History”, by Craig Stecyk, Volume 3 NO. 2 - Summer '94
“Rabbit Kekai Talking Story”, by Craig Stecyk & Steve Pezman, Volume 3 NO. 4 - Winter '94
Ditto, I was just coming back to say the same thing. Also, I believe (untested theory) that hollowing out the end of the tail would reduce a lot of drag. I am not sure if this would be a good thing or not, but the drag was very noticeable when paddling, and the board tended to hang very close to the pocket at all times. Also the tail block was approx 7.5" wide, the original board was very wide, 17" tail. -Carl
P.S. Dale, what happened with your hotcurl style kneeboards? where did the design lead? What was your conclusions?
And Lee, what “challenge” do you speak of? I think I’m out of the loop here? You can’t just order a blank with zero in the tail?
We have an annual get together at San Dollar Beach (Big Sur) in September where all of the Poster’s bring boards and stuff to raise money for Swaylocks. Everyone talks surfboards and ride each other’s boards. Pretty special. Anyway, some of us thought we’d have a little contest…a shaping challenge. Start with a 9’1"Y Clark blank with natural rocker and build something to ride at the camp out. Could be anything from a glass wrapped unshaped blank to two 4’6" paipos…a chance to show off your skills and creativity. Not too late to enter (although you may need to car pool with someone from SC as the campground parking is full…Check out the “Swayholics” section in the forum index for details…)
Thanks for the info Carl. It will definately affect my design…
Are we still trying to answer the gentlemans question regarding a yhp7 swizzle or did the page turn?
Hi Carl,
My old finless kneeboards were relatively easy to modify (repeatedly) as they were made with firm/soft closed cell materials, having internal skeletons rather than a hard outer shell.
I made wide to narrow tails on the finless kneeboards, and both worked, although I preferred wider designs for prone and knee use. For standing, I`d go narrower (esp. through the tail) and longer.
Since these designs incorporated flex, I didn`t shape much rocker into the back half through the centerline profile which was almost flat. Yet because of the vee, the rail line did have rocker. The rail contour I preferred was soft and relatively thin. A template with slight hips, a subtle forward concave which blended back into the vee worked very well.
Interestingly, the opposite contours can also be used, i.e. a fairly straight rail profile with rockered and/or channeled centerline contour. IMHO, not as stable a design as the Hot Curl`s dihedral bottom.
The complex bottom curves of the finless Hot Curl can also be simplified… divided into separate, flat planes, as a triplane. But to maintain finless control, the angles between those planes must be carefully balanced, so they don`t function as breakaway edges at higher speeds.
Regarding my finless kneeboards, the useful lifespan of whatever I built was based in part on economics, as well as increasingly limited space… I had ongoing projects/boards, mats and materials scattered around everywhere. Those old vehicles were all recycled into other things and like most everything else Ive created, they were either given away, discarded, or destroyed. I havent come across my old photos/slides in a long time. Looking back, I now regret not saving and documenting more.
My personal conclusions were obvious… finless boards could be made to function successfully. I reckon their primary charactersitic was that the faster they went, the more they`d stick to the water. The game of shaping them revolved around learning where to place the least/greatest amount of curve (convex and concave) in the most effective areas. Seeking efficiency… trying to find a balance of speed and control.
Due to circumstances, my finless designs didn`t lead me anywhere, at least directly. Yet they did answer many nagging questions, and gave a good deal of depth to my overall surfcraft knowledge and experience.
Dale - Sounds to me like those early expeirences led to the tri plane? Care to expound at all?
Taylor