I wanted to throw an idea out there I've been working on!
I see a lot of request for templates and a lot of go figure it out fer yerself replies out there, I gotta say you should do things for your self but a little help is always nice....
so what Ive done is gone to various websites saved pictures of all the fish types I can find, imported them into illustrator and "traced" the outlines. Now i can print them onto transparencies and project them right onto my blank and draw it out. Also if i want a larger or smaller board i just adjust the distance of the projector and don't have to worry about the outline shape changing just because the board is smaller or larger.
No I have not tested this on material yet but I have tested the projection and seems right on so please let me know what you guys think or if I'm the millionth person to have the same eureka moment?
I don't think the rocker would effect the image at all because the top of the blank is still a flat surface area, the image projected onto it would just give you your basic first cut. Eventually I will more than likely switch to the Masonite but this is a easy cheaper alternative and it's something I can share with others which is something i hope will be accepted on sways rather than frowned upon.
Wouldn’t the curve of the blank distort the image as it’s projected on the blank?
Either way, here’s how I make templates:
By a 4x8 sheet of masonite from home depot (under $10) and have the guys there slice it into four 1’x8’ slices (they do it for free and cut edges are straight as can be). Now you’ve got the materials for at least 4 templates. More if you are making double sided templates.
Download AkuShaper or Boardcad for free
Design your boards on those free programs and print out the full size templates on 8"x11" sheets of paper.
Tape the sheets together and cut out the full-sized paper template (takes 15 minutes max)
Use this full-sized paper template to trace your real template on one of the 1’x8’ masonite slices.
Cut out the masonite template with a jig-saw and smooth it out nice and clean with a rasp and hard sanding block (20-30 minutes max).
So now you’ve got the materials for 4-8 durable, accurate templates for under $10, assuming you have a printer/paper/internet/tape/jig-saw.
Wow I think you were on to something with that, it would be a great resource to beginers and pros alike. The tracing was actually not hard at all I think I did about 12 boards in a little more than an hour. I have a lot of expierience with illustraton so that may have helped me out a bit. If you ever do finish that web site let me know!
The blank may have a “flat surface” but it’s still curved, so wouldn’t this distort the projected line? Kind of like looking into one of those curved fun-house mirrors?
Either way, you still have to hand-trace the outline onto the blank with your “projection method” which would result in a less than perfect line as a cutting guideline. I am a beginner shaper like you (only 6 boards under my belt) but if there is one thing I can tell you that the key to a good shape is a really clean and true (90 degree) outline cut. Real templates give you that clean guideline that is essential if you want to give yourself your best shot at a good result.
I don’t mean to dampen your enthusiasm or ideas but I think the masonite route will get you a better result for a very low cost.
I just made myself a template from ply but found cutting the paper cleanly so there was a nice even cut was more difficult than it sounds. Any tricks or do you clean up any small irregularities when you rasp the template?
When you cut the template with the jigsaw, make sure you stay OUTSIDE the line by a comfortable margin (1/8" or so). Then you hone in on the line with the hand tools. First clean up the big irregularities with the rasp, then the smaller ones with a hard sanding block (60 grit). You will find that the hard sanding block gives you a nice, clean final line. Even go to 80 or 100 grit at the very end to clean up the edges and make everything nice and smooth.
May I add this: when you are reasonably near the pencil line, flip the template so that your eye won’t be fooled by this line and concentrate on getting a natural curve (no bumps). You’ll find it much easier.
I was asking more about cutting the paper cleanly, but I think I see the problem- are you gluing the paper onto the ply then using the jigsaw on the pencil line. I had been cutting the paper out first and just placing it on top of the ply. I can now see gluing paper onto the ply would remove the problem I was asking about.
I have made the mistake of cutting too close to the pencil line. I find this is much easier done when getting nearer to the nose.
I’m still thinking about the best way to let people share their templates. I’ll probaly control them myself before they come online, just to make sure it won’t become a mess.
I have exams right now. So It won’t be done before 21 jan
Cut the paper out with scissors as best as you can . Doesn’t have to be absolutely perfect, but do your best. Again, better to default cutting outside the line than to cross it. Ultimately you will smooth out the line on the template itself with the hard sanding block anyway. The same logic transfers to cutting the line you actually draw on the blank. Cut outside the line so you can hone in on the proper curve without getting the dreaded outline dips.
I don’t glue the paper onto the masonite. I just tape it in place every foot or so. I trace the outline with a sharpie. One hand slides on the paper right next to where the pen is drawing to keep the paper from distorting as I draw. No big deal. Once the line is drawn, I take the paper template off and cut the masonite with a jig saw (carbide). When I am fine-sanding the template, ultimately I want all of the sharpie line to disappear (but take Balsa’s advice and don’t get distracted by the drawn line…the goal is a smooth, dip-free curve).
By the way, if you are using plywood, hopefully it’s thin enough to bend down the rocker line (1/4" or less). I think most pros use masonite because it is cheaper than plywood, durable, and doesn’t splinter on the edge. It can be sanded nice and smooth.
Bob, both methods are possible. If you cut the paper template, use the LONGER scissors you can find as they will tend to follow long curves easier. Glueing the paper template onto masonite or plywood -that’s what I use- should work, too, but there might be an issue with the jigsaw blade tearing away paper… Since I don’t use printed templates, I can’t say for sure. My usual method is to locate basic points (widest point, width at nose, width at tail, middle), sometimes add a few more here and there, then roughly hand-draw a line passing through those points. True that curve a little bit (following one of Bill Thrailkill’s “dirty little secrets”, measures should obey to curve, not the opposite, i.e. if you don’t succeed in drawing a nice curve through some points, change them…) Then I jig-saw very roughly way outside the pencil line (as has been said already) and then true the curve with planer and sanding block, relying mainly on your eyes. Working against a dark background helps.
Ok well it no enthusiasm lost yet, I see your point with the curves and distortion and I fully agree the masonite is the best way to go. Now are you doing nose and tail shape on these templates?
As far as tracing simple outlines from pictures, would you say thats fairly reliable to imitate the desired board shape? I have about 12 diff fish shape outlines from the 7s superfish to the proctor lil rascal and twin fang. and would anyone like me to post them up?
Old boatbuilder's/ship builder's/designer's trick:
Set your points along the curve, then connect the dots with a batten: a straight-grained piece of thin, bendy wood. What is sold as 'lattice' is good, typically 1/4" (~6mm) thick x 1 to 1 1/4" wide ( 25-30 mm) set on edge . Or rip something on a tablesaw.
But not too thin or too bendy, you want it to stay put adequately when you trace alongside it with your pencil. What I'll do is tack down finish nails right in the 'points' and then bend the batten around 'em. Ideally, your batten is a fair amount longer than your curve, so that it doesn't get too distorted at the ends, which it can if the batten is too short.
And that, if the grain of the wood is decent, produces a nice fair curve. In boat work, where you work from points supplied by the designer...well, the points can be a bit off and you learn to trust your batten curve more than what the designer gives you.
I do nose/tail shapes on my templates for everything except swallow tails. For some reason you can’t do swallow tails with Aku/Boardcad. Then again, some people say that they can. I haven’t figured it out yet.
So for swallow tails, I just make the template out to the “point” on the tail area. I use a separate template (frisbee, etc.) to draw the swallow tail on the blank later on. All of the pros I’ve seen don’t even cut the swallow tail until the board is completely foiled and the rails finished, because it’s a pretty fragile area and you don’t want to break off a point by snagging it on your shirt or whatever. You can also use your leftover masonite scraps to make swallow tail templates if you so desire.
Tracing outlines from pictures is cool, if you can somehow deduce the key measurements of these outlines in full size. From there you can make templates either with the nail/batten way or the AKU/Boardcad paper tracing way.
Making templates is a necessary skill, and great practice for shaping as well. It's about learning how to ''see'' the curves. 2D images from photos aren't going to be accurate anyway. Drawing up your own curves will make the designs yours, rather than borrowed. Why would you want to make your own board if it's not your design?
If you have to borrow, the accurate way to do it is to pull the curve off an existing board onto a dimensionally stable material (why pros use masonite or sheet plastic).
balsa has given good tips on how to clean up and fair after cut. Only thing I could add would be to bevel the edge of the template at the very end, makes final fairing easier, working on a thinner edge. I hope Jim Phillips doesn't mind me passing along that little tip he showed me a long time ago.....
Thanks. Could you expand on what you had in mind when you wrote: ‘True that curve a little bit (following one of Bill Thrailkill’s “dirty little secrets”,’ - I did a quick search but didn’t find anything specific or are you referring to a general idea? I have been sent a whole pile of hand drawn designs so the idea of drawing curves from some basic dimensions is something I’d be interested to hear more about.
All you really need is to plot multiple dots along the line. Cut wide outside the dots and like Balsa says...
"if you don't succeed in drawing a nice curve through some points, change them..."
A long sanding block will usually 'draw' a much cleaner line than you can with a pencil or pair of scissors and it will more likely be one that you drew rather than a direct copy. A good eye is more important here than precise numbers. Whittle away with the mini-plane and sanding block until it is a perfectly smooth curve.
If you make spin templates, it is easy to shift the wide points around, extend or shorten the length or even combine (or reverse) different noses and tails. I often take a template and position it on the blank so it lines up other than tip to stringer. I.E. if I want a narrower outline, I shift the template so it overlaps the stringer. Wider? Just ignore the stringer and line up the template with your predetermined width marks on the blank.
In any case, a template is just a curved line and the exact dimensions and overall length/width can be shifted quite easily. It is surprising how many different outlines you can plot with just a single spin template.
