The Apocolypse...

General Discussion
21

The same things have already happened in other industries. This one just hits closer to home. The prices DO re-adjust. Initially the first people outsourcing undercut prices only a little, to drive sales, and this raises their profit margin. As more people outsource, the same market forces work to make things competitive. It should end up with import Pu/Pe boards costing $300 US, import compsands $450, and customs costing around twice as much as imports.

This model has been stable in other recreational sport industries for some time. The only thing holding back surfing from going that route was the strong hand of Grubby’s monopoly and the lack of a high caliber shaping machine. Grubby, btw, saw all this coming, and predicted a substantial improvement in consumer value from the outsourcing. Same caliber board at a greatly reduced price. Maybe the quality will not be there initially, but it will move there.

The big surfboard producers are ALREADY doing all their sales growth through imports. They cannot make enough surfboards domestically - not enough glass shops. So they expand through imports. Up until now there has been no shortage of domestic orders either - people just suspect that as imports crank up, prices on boards will drop, and local custom builders will have a harder and harder time.

22

You’re right on there Blakestah,

I think I read somewhere a theory about there being a multi-tier surfboard market. Low cost imports and molded boards for the weekend warrior and beginner, a higher quality machine-produced for the average surfer, and a more boutique style custom for the discerning surfer. In fact I think the model was applied to blanks rather than finished boards in Surfers Journal an issue or so ago.

Maybe we’ll see a slide back to a ‘60’s style paradigm, with the big manufacturers clogging the marketplace with the same ol’ same 'ol and true innovation driven by the guy who builds for himself. Parmenter has opinions on this too along the same lines, and it kinda makes sense, although there are enough surfers now that the big guys will always have enough customers. That probably wasn’t the case during the backyard revolution.

There are about 4500 or so surfers who use this site, right? That’s probably 4500 guys who wouldn’t ride a board that wasn’t made just for them. There’s something positive at least! I just hope that not too many shapers and glass guys hit the dole office because of all this.

23

Actually import and exports are closely regulated by the Government and in the U.S. that is Wal-Mart(moment of silence pleae…)

Really though my eyes sere openened on this about a decade ago while I traveled in Asia. In America the car Kia or Hyndai(sp) were inexpensive boarderline pieces of crap autos. While in Asia is see these same brands but in lexus/mercedes sytles that look just beautiful. The the world of imports and export agreements were explained to me .

The picture you paint regarding the working environment in these foriegn board building shops is false. The factories make most of our prodction shops domestically lok like small backyard establishments.

Also your population arguement was given to me in 1969 during indoctrination in public school. According to those experts there should be no oil left and we should have all starved 7 years ago.

Humans are smart when they need to be, Capitalism works to help in this matter too.

24
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Its’ only “Free Trade” to the CEO’s and their ilk who see the benefits. We might see a lower price, but it won’t matter if we’re unemployed.

I was gonna say…yup, there it is in a nutshell… But, the problem we face is not “unemployment”…its “under-employment” And when youre under-employed, product price does matter…it matters a lot. Thus the growing popularity of cheap imports. Reminds me…I was at Home Depot looking at an appliance and the aggro Joe Six-pack salesman starts pushing the LG brand on me…I said “sorry not interested in Asian brands”…he promptly starts questioning me saying “hey theyre all made in Asia anyway, including American brands”…I pull out my personal biz card with my credentials listed and tell him “ok, howbout I just bypass you and Home Depo and buy directly from the Asian manufacturer…soon youll be looking for new work too”…he went blank and walked away. The shortsightedness of people just kills me…and the selling out continues…what a world.

25

We surfers and surf shop owners are guilty of driving the bus…

In the US, surfing is a $6.5 billion business. Very little of that goes to shapers. “Lifestyle” companies make sweatshirts for $2 and retail them for $60. Surfboard companies make boards for $450 and sell them for $550. Back in the 60’s shop owners, in their quest to be competetive, brought board building in-house to shave costs. Surfers (me included) have groveled for bro-deals and have scoffed at prices that allow shapers (and glassers, and sanders, and polishers…) to make a decent living.

Surftechs aren’t evil… they’re just different. The guys that work there are core surfers - and are trying to make a living doing something they love (ask Wingnut). Out of my thirty or forty boards a few are Surftechs. I know if something happens to them, they can be replaced with something predictable. They lack the “soul” of a custom board, but good surfers should be able to ride anything.

Surftech’s success building boards in Asia may have helped open the doors for guys like WSI (Blue, 7, NSP, etc) because board buyers have accepted them. Ultimately though, we as surfters and surf shop owners dictate what sells.

Surfing’s trendiness has created masses of new surfers. They’re coming to surfing with no clue of soul or tradition. They just want to have fun. Some of them will burn out or become weekend warriors. Some will get good enough to appreciate differences in board design. Unfortunately, some will become technically “good” surfers and still have no clue, but that’s a different topic.

More surfers equals more board sales - of all kinds. The custom builders I know are as busy as they’ve ever been. There will always be those of us who want custom boards. It’s not like making them is getting any harder - there are more options for custom builders than ever.

The world is not coming to an end. Al Merrick selling out is not the end of the world. He’s been making boards a long time. He’s not getting any younger. What’s wrong with him wanting a chunk of change to spend in his twilight years? Jake Burton isn’t evil either. I remember him as a goofy guy trying to sell us these silly things to surf on the snow. We laughed at him then, but look who’s laughing now. I’m stoked he followed his dream and found his pot of gold. We all work for money. Shouldn’t we be able to make it doing something we love?

26
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I assume you mean “natural business trend” as in the way that America has outsourced, downsized or otherwise removed the human element from 90% of the rest of it’s industry.

As the U.S. puts to rest a particularly banal election season I seem to have lost a bit of fire. Is the U.S. the only country that outsources, downsizes, or removes “the human element” from industry? I think not. Look at Airbus just today for one example, yes doing what Boeing did 6 years ago but now they are doing it for their own survival. I think the fact the U.S. is so huge and does so much of everything makes it seem so one sided.

That said, I have been struck in recent months with the insistence that U.S. schools have to become “more competitive” and really educate our children in math and sciences so they can “be competitive in the world market”. Hee hee hee…what kind of drugs are these people on? I want some!

Do much of anything in industry with success and the jobs get shipped off overseas. If you didn’t invent the product and maintain legal control, you are expendable. Study math and science and you can work in the Fast Food of the 21st Century. This only gets worse if the company is on the stock market. CI was sold to Burton, which means it remains an industry “insider”. If Merrick took it public, and it certainly could have made that transition, it would have become a vanished victim of greed. Miss a couple of quarters of “analyst projections” and the surfers would be shown the door and the bankers and investment capitalists would be running the show - and of course their first concern would be quality of product and life. Right? Drugs drugs drugs drugs…

Probably the best thing that could happen to surfing is a bunch of Wall Streeters buy the big brands and run them into the crapper, all in the name of short term profits. As long as the raw materials are available and a few goofball malcontent dreamers stick it out in various arenas, there is hope.

27

Probably the best thing that could happen to surfing is a bunch of Wall Streeters buy the big brands and run them into the crapper, all in the name of short term profits. As long as the raw materials are available and a few goofball malcontent dreamers stick it out in various arenas, there is hope.

yup…

28

Damn right boys…

I think I may have spelled apocolypse wrongly though. Darn. Apocalypse maybe?? Yeah, now that I look at it, it’s got two a’s in it. CRAP.

29

I guess no one here has anything better to do…

life sucks

things change

you either do something about it

or you go with the flow

people drown swimming against the rip

don’t think anyone has any idea

of how it all really works

between the haves and the have nots

if they did

I’m sure they wouldn’t be here grumbling about it here…

for measly $25 trillion a year (about the amount that changed hands through our little buddy network last year)

I think I can redirect

some of the forces of this financial ecology

so it won’t be so polluting to the disenchanted populace

anyone care to ante up for the cause?

30
Quote:

don’t think anyone has any idea

of how it all really works

between the haves and the have nots

if they did

I’m sure they wouldn’t be here grumbling about it here…

??? Including you? You usually have some keen insights on the business end of things. I see how “it” works in many ways, but I suppose don’t know “how it all really works”. I look at the stock market, for instance, and I see all the experts and analysts constantly getting caught by surprise. I talked to a broker who was looking for my business - he actually wanted to “manage my wealth” which is funny on so many levels I could crap my pants- and he pointed out that brokers having knowledge of something going on with a company which would have significant effect on the stock prices would be prosecuted for insider trading. That makes sense…but if that makes sense, does it make sense to pay that person commissions on transactions and fees for advice that they know up front can’t be very accurate? Seems insane to me…

Sometimes it just seems as simple as rising or falling tides…and at this point it looks like a rising tide of trash. I think the general subjects both at a wide angle and specifically targeted keep coming back up because there never seems to be a solid decent graspable concept that paints a “decent” picture (the positive take, the happy ending of sorts)…it always looks like something evil is floating around events…and it pops up here because in modern life there are very few opportunities to interact with people from diverse age, ethinic, geologic, political, educational, financial, professional, and schooofhardknocks experiences.

Damn…getting wordy there…getting time to drink up and go do my Civic Duty and then watch the circus on tv tonight.

31

its an ugly world out there

what else can I say

without incriminating

someone or something.

those that have a handle on such things

are probably too busy

making life miserable for everyone else

than spending time drooling about it here on swaylocks.

bottomline as if everyone

doesn’t know about it already in their gut

but most of the haves in this world

care very little about the have nots

and more about having more.

so to effect change

you have to become a bigger have

than the haves (and have nots)

you wish to impose your will (ie change)upon.

that’s it in a nutshell

The devils challenge is how to get there

without getting consumed and corrupted

by the mentality and desires

of the rest of the haves

you have to surround your self with in getting there.

Bert’s dealing

and so has everyone else

wandering that pathway in life.

finding ways to survive the madness of change and time without running headfirst into the pains they bring on

is the game most of us who understand the natural ways of the world prefer to play.

Including you too Nels right?

value is self realized

the sooner one understands that

the easier the burden of life becomes

oh yea sometime a brew or two helps out

32
Quote:

so to effect change

you have to become a bigger have

than the haves (and have nots)

you wish to impose your will (ie change)upon.

that’s it in a nutshell

The devils challenge is how to get there

without getting consumed and corrupted

by the mentality and desires

of the rest of the haves

you have to surround your self with in getting there …finding ways to survive the madness of change and time without running headfirst into the pains they bring on

is the game most of us who understand the natural ways of the world prefer to play.

Including you too Nels right?

Well, hell yes…trying to find a way around having to be a bigger asshole than the assholes who are already pushing…do we disengage from the battle, run away? Do we obliviate ourselves so we don’t notice? Do we pretend bad things don’t exist? Are we running on empty? Running for the sheer joy of running? Or all of the above, at one time or another.

I actually think the world is a beautiful place…but the things of man can frequently leave a lot to be desired. Onward.

33
Quote:

I actually feel sick to my stomach.Should I worry about that? You tell me…

Yes Jeremy you should be VERY worried, life IS being strained through the colander of profitability so that only the best remain( for the benefit of the shareholders, of course) No one can deny the options in all aspects of life are lessening as small, low profit manufacturers close, and other, more viable players are bought out by bigger concerns.

Here in Aust,we love the US style of life and business, thats why we copy it, and here at Sways you guys show an awful amount of tolerance for all sorts of crap that should be shot down instantly, but why should anyone be tolerant of epoxy boards??

why in deed…

1/ they are made outside the US and Aust.

So theres another bucket load of jobs that’ve gone off shore.

( BTW,as a side line, if you require dental crowns etc,in US and Aust. most of that work is flown overnight to the East where the labour is cheap and then flown back.Result, another bucket load of jobs and money going out of your and my country. And how long before your job goes too? Dont be so sure it wont !! )

2/ They are made of the most hideously polluting chemicals that the EPA would rather shit in their hands and clap vigourosly than allow epoxy boards to be made in the US or Aust. (ever wondered why they dont make epoxys here?)

So theres a big vote for the environment we are living in and leaving for our kids to sort out, or suffer.

3/ They are the exact opposite of our surf culture in their perfect replication. (No need to tell me how your surf today was, because I had one exactly epoxy like yours.)

4/ the first 2 points should be enough for everyone to charge to the ramparts, gird their loins, and deny the entry of epoxy boards.!!

Deride ,derail and defame their foreign existance from entering into our surfing culture, a culture that we have made.

The surfboard is the fruit of thankless effort, a craft of endless refinement, conjecture and musing that is ever unique, a reflection of ourselves.

I will never knowingly put money into the hands of people that are needlessly hurting my world, my people, my children.

Be angry, deny the culture of silent obedience, stand and be counted with solid conviction for your beliefs.

Or you can just chill-out and let another man, no better than you , decide what you should have. After all, how bad could it get…

No need to get off the lounge …its all under control.

Regards, Brett Curtis.

34
Quote:

bottomline as if everyone

doesn’t know about it already in their gut

but most of the haves in this world

care very little about the have nots

and more about having more.

so to effect change

you have to become a bigger have (reminds me of certain president)

than the haves (and have nots)

you wish to impose your will (ie change)upon.

that’s it in a nutshell

this is as old as time itself…nothing new the only difference is now we have “Governments” not Kingdoms If the ‘haves’ cannot have their Kingdom, they infiltrate their ‘have’ representative into government…buying (bamboozling) voters. Its morning Nov 8, 2006…things are looking a bit brighter today.

35

Testify Brett!

I was taught two things very early on in my life. First, “Man leads man to his injury”. This fact is self evident if you look at history. Be it Democracy/Totalitarianism, Capitalism/Communism the end results are the same eventually. Corruption, dishonesty, greed and violence are the hallmarks of every single government in history. I know that to our swaybrothers in America a change seems to be in the wind, but I might come under fire for saying that I don’t vote in any elections, ever. I’m neutral when it comes to the grinding of the wheels of power, lest they grind me! Heh heh.

Secondly, a simple life is a happy life. What I don’t need, I don’t go after. Simple as that.

As far as the epoxies go, I was really saying that I don’t got no beef with the homemade, custom shapes and compsands that use epoxy as a skin. I have heard that the stuff Loehr is selling is a lot easier and more pleasent to work with than the epoxy goop of yesteryear. Sways seems to be a miniature breeding ground for the endless invention that you mentioned, and that’s why it’s so cool to hang out here! I love it.

I just get so tired of hearing people bleat about how “capitalism is the only thing that works”. It doesn’t work in anything other than the short term. Political ideologies just have differing shelf-lifes. Communism was un-paturised milk, and capitalism is that UHT milk that you take camping. It’s o.k. right now, but you sniff it each morning 'cos you’re not sure when it’s going to turn to yoghurt!

Speaking of yoghurt, I’m off to grab some brekkie and go to work. See ya.

37
Quote:

Its morning Nov 8, 2006…things are looking a bit brighter today.

Yup

Halliburton down 2%

Rumsfield a possible sacrificial lamb for the blue tide

the blood money will just transfers into new pockets

we’ll see if it’s effects actually benefits the masses instead of just those at the top

but yes its a time for hope again…

But the down fall of over inflated real estate and oversold mortgages will start to take their toll soon

look at walmart and home depot…

it’s another sign

black friday will be a sign post for the coming year

38

this thread has turned depressingly political. Come on folks this is Swaylocks not Surfermag. Besides, the only thing in this world you can change is yourself.

Now, surfboard discussion, please…

39

aaahhhhhhhh and for the morning between the velzylznd cam and a glass of water we have on the menu…

apox o’ lips.

what spills from our concious…ness is…?

from our brains ,critique fear distrust flaw quest …

the likes of goin to heck in a handbasket midlife schlockity.

they blocked trestles off

the subversives surfed trexles

the installed floid

they still surfed the ranch

they threw rocks

they formed clubs

tthey all were self serving

attitude pits of muck

they graduated or promoted

themselves to higher status

captains of industry

Industry

INDUSTRY?

now the competitive spirit,

learned in football practice

and baseball cards and

batton barton dursidine and osbourne,

has reared the head of Medusa above the horizon.

for some the rising of the sun is blocked

for others all that is needed is to

close one eye and keep the other eye on the prize.

What you may ask is the prize?

It is hard to define.

alan watts ,

I only read a small part of the book,

to describe Zen is impossible

cause when you think you’ve got it

it moves,perhaps morphs…

and it is diffrent.

so it is with surfing…

they ,you know them

the it guys that are mere shadows of former

accolades bloated by self indulgent misdemeanors

have staked theirs out and sold it as a time share.

have your picture taken w/em at the big retail show

read an article of interpreted history

or fantasy heats aw cummon…

what is surfing?

O.K.

what isnt it?

surfing isnt popouts

from pasty faced

old grey rooted

hair dye jobs

dont buy it.

big deal.

when kooks get old

they are old kooks.

when disgruntled

young men

with confined concepts

get crowded and grumpy

then old they are just old.

kinda like old lettuce or potatoes

they do turn to compost eventually.

you wanna be happy

go surfin

you wanna get a wave to yourself?

dont surf pipeline

malibu

superbank

jeffries

rincon

apox o’ lips

you shape the universe with your thoughts

you confirm it with your voice

you materialize it with your acts.

subvert the epoxy technology

make your own stuff

dig the wood ogre

crysalis

early october

balsa logs

by november…

hollow kite prototype

the stuff of creative freedom is not contingent on industrial giants

the stink of industry cringes at the thought of free thinking

make a paper airplane ,a good one and

violla alakazam and a wink of an eye

and all the popout kooks are

enlightened.

A Pox O’ Lips

speak disastr and you are devastated

an earthquake is an oppertunity to rebuild a better wall

a hurricane is a salvage oppertunity to rebuild

pointing fingers at the flaw is letting

the thought processes fester in an appendix

what a cool wave lets surf it.

there is nobody out

…ambrose…

cept for me an herb an paul and mark and matt and keith and john and lee

and chip and clean and tuna and any body ele that wants to be cool with that surfin as a reality is still a refuge for free thinking and unbridled creativity

Industrial products are not art.

all I see is art

art thou art?

40
Quote:

this thread has turned depressingly political. Come on folks this is Swaylocks not Surfermag. Besides, the only thing in this world you can change is yourself.

Now, surfboard discussion, please…

Ah, well… I saw a 6’2" thruster all run over on the freeway the other day…

But I guess enough is enough, at least for now. “All she wants to do is dance” is how the song goes at Surfermag. Sometimes it hurts holding the High Ground. But since we have it, how about tossing rose petals down on the masses for a moment’s grace? Anyone wondering how it should or could be, and is in some places, should enjoy this. Seriously. Now time to get some fresh air…

http://www.twsbiz.com/twbiz/profiles/article/0,21214,1543705,00.html