Howzit Bill, I think we should add Pat Curren to the list of gun board influencers.Aloha,Kokua
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''... I think we should add Pat Curren to the list of gun board influencers.''
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Yep. I had the luck and pleasure to be exposed to Pat, Al Nelson, Del Cannon, and Wayne Land, on a regular basis in the mid/late 50's as regular surfers at WindanSea. To a man they were THE cutting edge surfers, and shapers, at that time. I know I was influenced by them, as were many others.
Howzit Bill, I met Del one day under some really funny cicumstances and after that I would stop by his shop( the one by the laudrymat in S.C.) after that and talk story,great guy and great shaper. Wayne land I met while working with Plastic Fantastic and he was the one we would send to the Eas Coast when certain shops wouldn't pay for the boards we ha sent them, he was one guy you definitely didn't want to mess with.Those were some good days.Aloha,Kokua
just to chime in from the peanut gallery of young(in terms of overall experience) board makers here, but one thing that all this Simmons stuff has done is help surfers realize that we have been possibly riding the wrong equipment, a lot of the time. Look at all the widebody thrusters and straighter outlines out these days. Arbitrary or inspired?
That’s where I see his concepts going. if he was indeed going smaller with his designs, he may have pushed the overall dimensions around a bit to find the golden mean. The fish may be the epitome of this design thought, or not, I don’t know, but it no doubt gets a bad rap as just a mush buster when indeed it was designed to take on some serious surf - a la heaving Big Rock etc…
Some of the Simmons boards already had pulled in noses and pronouced hips - from what I can see on the web anyway - so is it possible he may have continued to refine his outline?
Who knows he may have come up with something completely different and way out of left field, but water still flows the same way now as it did then.
Maybe the real question is would we look at the way we surf today the same if Simmons had lived longer since most of our modern “tricks” are centered around the board failing…
(this is bound to cause controversy, and get me flamed as well, but I mean it in the most humble and respectful way)
Speaking to Joe Baugess a while back, he said (relating the conversation he had with John Elwell when he was making the 1st Mini-Simmons) that there was no actual proof that Bob Simmons was riding these micro boards. He made a 6’ composite board for Bev Morgan with a single fin, and since it didn’t work, or spun out all the time, he abandoned the idea. And there was the issue of his alleged bad arm that limited his paddling ability.
So, if this is true, maybe he would have gone in a totally different direction with his shorter boards? Maybe follwing the Paipo guys more closey…?
(Just putting it out there guys, not trying to rain on the parade)
Royal.. I always like seeing positive and negative feedback/info. I feel you learn more when you look at at what is wrong with something rather that what was right. I am just getting into reading all this about simmons designs, and how other shapers were influenced, so my knowledge is limited. Ive been more intrigued with his hull planning concepts, rather than the shapes of his boards. Knowing that he built a 6' single fin that dint work out is inspiring to me. If indeed that is true, Simmons wouldnt have dropped the idea, but he would have dug deeper, maybe changing, shapes, bottom coutour, and fin design. All that said, it makes me more interested in learning more about the board he was riding the day he died. John Elwell said he was surfing brilliant that day, it was a new board same configuration, but improved the attack angle, doing 1 stroke and no stroke take offs,
From what I’ve read, Simmons was quite a hard head when it came to “other” ideas. Isn’t that why Quigg stopped with him, because Simmons got mad about the design direction Quigg took.
I would think that Simmons path would have continued on towards faster straight line riding, with easy paddling being an important part of the design. It’s interesting that he came over to Hawaii and rode many big wave spots, but kept his designs pretty similar. I think he made his boards for the areas he liked to surf, and the style he had.
I see modern tow boards as the pinnacle of high speed surf board. On the other side is the nugget/pig style, wide thick and easy to ride board. Then there are so many choices in between depending on where you surf, how you surf, and how big the waves are. I think all the basic design possibilities have been done.
Other than that we have Tom Morey, who keeps things fresh. He’s probably the guy to look to.
"I was surfing with Simmons the day he was killed and was the only one with him when he took off late on a big wave and slipped on a new, poorly-waxed board. He was surfing brilliantly that day after returning from the North Shore in the winter of '53. He made a new board in '54, the same configuration but improved the attack angle so he could take one-stroke and no-stroke take-offs. His boards were just about perfectly balanced and he would check them on a sawhorse and note the center of gravity. I think this is very important!
quote from john elwell
http://rusty.com/blog/2010/02/23/talking-design-with-rusty-bob-simmons-and-hulls-part-i/
I think Joe Quigg and Simmons had different opinions on how the best way to surf was. Simmons liked to go straight and fast, and Joe Quigg preferred to do turns and and move around more on the wave. I know that Gordon said if Simmons were alive today he believes Joe and him would still be friends. I believe Joe wanted to move back to Oahu and explore other areas or watersports. Joe Quigg went on to make award winning paddleboards, outriggers, and catamarans along with surfboards. Simmons I think would have stuck with surfboards, but you never know. I have heard stories from Gordon about the relationship with Simmons. But nothing firsthand from Joe so I am just guessing.
maybe somebody should give Bev Morgan and Yater a call and see what they have to say?i am sure they could give some insight to questions.
"Joe Quigg went on to make award winning paddleboards. "
One of the most beautiful aquatic devices that i have ever seen was a wooden Quigg paddleboard.
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is this a photo of Bob Simmons ???
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It seems Simmons had an affinity for speed, I wouldn’t be surprised if had he lived longer is he would not have developed catamarans.
hmm… im not sure what to think about Simmons sticking to just fast straight rides. I thought he built some shorter boards, and was unsuccessful. (don’t quote me there lol) But if indeed he was trying to build a shorter board, you would think it would be because he wanted to move around in the wave more and go fast. I am making an attempt at a Simmons replica. I was trying to get Lindsay Lords “Naval Architecture of planning hulls” book. My school here said the only one they found was in Great Britain. I’m figuring if you start with what he did, maybe you might see where he was going. I’m from Minnesota and have very limited contemporary surfboard design influence. Figure if i see what Simmons saw in the book, maybe i’d have a different view point than the regular shaper/designer. Or ill just be some smuck with some ugly looking boards ha
I don’t know about his shorter boards, but I do know Joe Quigg and Matt Kivlin had differences with Simmons on how to ride the boards. Simmons liked to go straight and fast, and Quigg and Kivlin liked the ability to cut back and move around some on the face of a wave. After Joe Quigg moved back to Oahu Simmons may have decided to mix it up. He was always refining his boards, so if he was making them shorter it was for a reason. Like others have mentioned before, his arm injury might have been leading him to the most efficient way to catch the waves. These guys were leading the way for all of us to follow. I know the Joe Quigg designs still work well, Gordon made me a nice 9’ longboard with his Dad’s templates.
anyone know where you can get " Naval Architecture " ?????