I’m a bit bored at the moment so I thought I fill in some time with my 2 cents worth on the pop out thing and how it’s going to affect conventional western board builders. One thing I’ve heard a few times is that China has a cheap labour force and that’s about it. Because of this, the end is nigh for western board builders who don’t relocate to this neck of the woods. Let’s also not forget Surftech who for some reason seem to be fueling this myth because they sell a lot of molded boards and are based in Thailand. There are several things that I find flawed with all of this.
Firstly, Surftechs cost about twice the price of conventional boards. They also have about $20 million US invested if I recall correctly. For that amount of investment I’d want to be selling “pop outs” by the bucket load as well.
Secondly, China has cheap labour force. Whoopee! Get a profiling machine. Doesn’t have to be CNC. Minimizes labour and is good for generics. Even better still, learn how to glass, hot coat and sand. Doesn’t take that long and isn’t that hard to learn. Then you’ll only have your own labour to pay for.
Thirdly, backyarders. They do just as good a job if not a whole lot better for not much difference in price in comparison to cheap asian boards.
Fourthly, the masses. Since when do most surf shops cater for the masses? Since when do people who buy surfboards from a discount store buy from you? Know who your market is.
Fifthly, generics. I think we will see more of these come from western based shapers in the not too distant future. No they won’t be made in China because you can make a generic for about the same price as they can if you set your mind to it.
In closing I don’t think western based shapers have anything to fear from China or any other asian countries. In fact I think it’s the other way around. Reduce the manual labour and the price comes down substantially. And labour reduction in surfboards is not that hard to do. More of a mindset thing I think actually, mainly because I get the impression that some surf shops / manufacturers seem to think that if it’s not custom it’s no good.
there is a NICHE for everyone… has anyone seen any of these POP OUTS in a surf shop in the U. S. A. ?? i havent seen any in the santa cruz / monterey area… i think that surfers who are on there game and take there surfing serious will continue to buy off the rack or custom boards… my guess would be this is about 70 % of the surfing population? does anyone really think that serious surfers are gonna buy there boards at costco? i think not…
has anyone seen any of these POP OUTS in a surf shop in the U. S. A. ?? i havent seen any in the santa cruz / monterey area…
Well, if we’re talking about the generic boards that are built overseas, yes. Someone decided to resurrect a few labels from the Sixties, a while back. The names include Oceanside, Challenger, and Surfboards Australia. These are all done by the same outfit. I’m pretty sure they’re built in China. Many people have confused these boards with the original manufacturers who were making them decades ago. They are essentially fakes. I have seen plenty of them in the Northeast US. I wouldn’t buy one, but I know folks who did.
resinhead, i wasnt looking for a chineese pop out, i was trying to make a point that they arent going to take over any big market? like everyone is saying there not in mainstream shops… you gotta go to e bay or swaylocks to get them… there market is gonna be maybe some one wanting to buy a board for there girlfriend thats just beginning or some begineer that lives fifty miles from the coast? and eventually these people if they get the bug will be ordering a lifetime of custom boards from reputable shapers… so the pop out has its place?
there is a NICHE for everyone... has anyone seen any of these POP OUTS in a surf shop in the U. S. A. ?? i havent seen any in the santa cruz / monterey area...
Huh? The epoxy boards under the Santa Cruz brand are all over the place and they are asian popouts. Same goes for surftech and bob miller’s cobalt popouts. Several shops, including even Freeline carry those Blue popout boards and other similar brands like Modern and the like.
hi slim yes your right about the surftech, santa cruz, and cobalt lines… what i was talkin about is the 230 dollar chineese shaped by some farmer type popout… the companys you mention are not in this category… the point i am trying to make here is i really dont think the industry needs to worry bout these china guys taking over… never gonna happen
I agree that it is not going to hurt the small, custom, hand shapers.
A similar thing has happened to almost every other product. Furniture, bicycles, whatever. But one can still get custom made furniture in nearly every town in america and high-quality bicycles are still made here as well. Surfboards will be the same.
One of the only manufacturing industries I can think of that is still largely usa based is the skateboard industry. Recently some companies have set up shop in china to make their boards there (usually with wood shipped over from usa/canada) but there’s been a bit of a backlash from customers. However, the largest selling skateboard gear such as independent and thunder trucks, and spitfire wheels, bones wheels, etc. are all made right here in california. One reason they’ve been able to do that is that skateboarding has a strong by-skater-for-skater culture. All the big industry players are owned by skateboarders.
The surf industry has been this way as well. But that’s dying on the macro scale. I just hope we’re right that the small, custom shapers will be able to survive and get the supplies they need right here in the usa.
I agree that it is not going to hurt the small, custom, hand shapers.
One of the only manufacturing industries I can think of that is still largely usa based is the skateboard industry. Recently some companies have set up shop in china to make their boards there (usually with wood shipped over from usa/canada) but there’s been a bit of a backlash from customers. However, the largest selling skateboard gear such as independent and thunder trucks, and spitfire wheels, bones wheels, etc. are all made right here in california. One reason they’ve been able to do that is that skateboarding has a strong by-skater-for-skater culture. All the big industry players are owned by skateboarders.
The skateboard industry is switching over quicker than Volcon can put out another ad stating they are the youth against the “establishment”
Starting with your “Fifthly, generics”. You think we’ll see more of this from western shapers? Really, to my eye, that’s all I see when I go to a shop and see rack after rack of the same old same old - the only difference being a couple of inches in length. Racks of Merricks, Rustys, Lost etc. etc. in the short board racks and you take the logos and graphics off and you’d be hard pressed to tell the difference. Same for the long boards, mostly “nostalgia” noseriders and such… Rarely any mid-lengths, any progressive shaping and/or designs. Only what the rags advertise and the kids see the pros on. And the quality often is less than desired - visible tears along the stringer, screen marks on the rails, swirls, etc. - like they’re just cranking out product, very far from what I’d expect from the big boys…
Which ties in directly with your “Fourthly, the masses”. Since when do most surf shops cater to the masses? Since they realized that the majority of their sales could be made to non surfers on the fashion end - “Lifestyle Sales” - because there was/is too small a profit being a core surf shop only selling boards, wetsuits, wax and baggies (boardshorts for you youngsters).
Boy, I miss the days when walking into a “Surf Shop” got the adrenaline going from the resin smell of fresh, new boards…now it’s a smell like a dry-cleaners…
I like the points you make - especially re: the backyarders because it could lead to a similar situation as the late '60’s…wait, isn’t that where Rusty, Merrick, et.al. started?..Sounds like a viscious cycle…
hi pete you bring up a couple good points… the shops i go to are about the same also with rows of top line shapers… its kind of weird for me too that you can go into a rusty shop and there are just as many other shapers boards as rustys, in there own shop… { i am using rusty as an example and have never been in his shop} it just seems to me if your shaping boards and you have a shop youd want to sell YOUR product … but if you got rows and rows of other boards it tells me its all about money? as for the quality things you mention i havent seen that in california? boards all look pretty good? i d like to bring up another point you mentioned… rows and rows of a particular shaper… are we suppose to beleive that ALL THOSE BOARDS are shaped by the shaper himself? virtually impossible ?? hows about someone tossin the GHOST SHAPER thing around on swaylocks?
I’m going to play the devils advocate here and take it one step farther…
I think that these pop out surfboards will end up greatly increasing the sales of quality boards (be they hand shaped, custom, epoxy, off the rack, whatever). Here is my reasoning. These pop out boards are without question targetting people who have either never surfed, or are very new to the sport. They are for the average Joe who watches Fuel TV,likes what he sees, and figures he’ll give it a go. So these boards are essentially creating more surfers (good for industry, bad for the lineup). Some of these new surfers will lose interest, butmany will catch the bug. Any of them who spend some decent time on the water will gain a greater understanding about the soul, culture, and history of surfing. I bet VERY few of them will buy a cheapo pop out for their second board. I guess you could think of the popouts as advertising for the rest of the industry, becuase it recruits new customers into the surfing market.
…whether we really want that many new surfers in the lineup is a whole other story…
I think a big factor is market share, and a one of the biggest parts of the market is the entry level. Beginners and novas alike will buy these boards like hotcakes and most likely they will flood the market away from the where the domestic surfboard makers are located. The shops and stores that will, and are selling these boards typically have to wait for the domestic builders to deliver product in a timely manner. The Chinese boards that I have seen lately are of a surprising high quality, with scanned shapes, good foam, and glass jobs that are putting some domestic glassers on their heals. It’s pretty easy to see that it is in, full on, survival of the fittest mode, like it or not. It won’t be long, or is probably happening already, that this situation will pass out of the entry level. The success of the Chinese work force is that they want to work hard and succeed in building what will sell. The downfall is that the PRC is in a state of shock with industrial pollution that pales our, western industrial revolution x 100. The shake down is in full swing. You are seeing the shit stuff advertised on the Sways home page, but there is more out there marketed, designed, and QC’d by westerners. So, if you are going to put anyone to fault, it’s us as well.
surfer 805. thanks well said! for all those people who get the bug, many will hook up with a LOCAL shaper and buy a lifetime of boards… also your the second person to compare quality… china = usa… you know i shop the santa cruz area and have to admit… THE QUALITY IS EXXXCELLENT… maybe i am just lucky???
Silly- Actually, the two areas where I have done the most surfing seem to be two of the most sharky areas in California. I surfed Bodega Bay (plus Stinson, Bolinas, and the like) before moving away to college, and now the San Luis Obispo area while in school. The water ain’t exactly warm in these spots either. But there are still PLENTY of people out in the lineups.
I normally stay out of these type of discussions, but while reading this I remembered something my sander sand something to me a few weeks ago. He said quality never goes out of style. If united states board builders focus on quality and service you will always have a market. how many times have you heard the stories of shapers taking deposits and then not delivering the boards for over a year. Being reliable to a customer is very important. Being a surfer/shaper doesnt make it ok for you to run a business like crap. You have a moral responsibility to someone when you take money from them. Eventually there wont be as many custom board builders. Its the survival of the fittest and you will survive if you deserve it.
Right on Austin. You may be an exception to the rule being a complete board builder, shaping and glassing in house.
In the case of the shapers taking money up front and having a long wait, I think there is more to it. Mostly, it’s getting boards glassed, and the log jam doing the high quality work. This often takes months and cost in the $400.00 range ala MLG. This also leaves the shaper w/ out of pocket expenses over a great period of time. Not that I’m making excuses…this does leave the X-factor on the full time shaper to have a seamless flow of work, from start to finish, which we know is a hard task to conquer.
This whole situation is an opportunity for the quality (cream) to rise to the top, and the mediocre builders to show their poor quality, yes, here in America.
business wise, we are in the “service age”…meaning that what really sells and makes a company succeed thee days and in the future is the service after buying the product…your followup.
chinese boards cant do that very well can they? If we want to succeed in any business in the future, we need to concentrate on making sure the customers are happy after the sale…keep in touch…thats something we as custom board builders can pretty easily accomplish these days.
I think the fact that surfboard building IS in fact business is something that many of us forget because it is our passion. It being a business makes it seceptable to every threat any other business is under, we often forget that…I dont find myself feeling like making boards is business-like because i really honestly love every step of the process, hard work and passion usually stay seperate for most people. If we forget that we are making a business in making boards, (profitability-wise) were done.