The Firewire Fights or Board Porn gone bad (Warning Picture Heavy)

General Discussion
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Quote:

…

Don’t be a lemming and find out for yourself. Build your own or find a good local builder who’ll work with you instead of just befriending your money, then decide what works best for you where and how you surf…

That’s probably the most accurate and succinct expression of the mission of Swaylock’s (a least from my POV) that I’ve yet seen…

-Samiam

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Oneula, this is all firing me up to get a Griff, of course, but that’s a rare and expensive bird to get flown out to Texas, so I’m kinda wondering for my own builds’ sake, if that board is as flat-bottomed as it looks? And I was kinda wondering about tail rocker too. I get that the fins are the shit, but I wondered if you could describe the tailward contours, in generalities, even.

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The board is very simple

pretty mush a flat bottom and little rocker especially the tail.

I’ll try and get some photos measurements is Griff’s okay with it

Griff’s philosophy is that people keep monkeying this or that of a board like rocker or bottom or deck instead of getting the entire package right in the first place. If everything is put togethor with some decent thought about how it’s going to be used then you find it’s best to keep things simple or contour changes very minimal.

His favorite mantra is why spend all that effort designing the perfect board only in the end to slap some piece of cr*p off the shelf fins on the board, A very lazy and selfish approach from the designer just to capitalize on making money instead of a better ride. That’s why he’ll spend two weeks hand foiling his customers fins out of G10 specific for their needs and then tune them afterwards. Retail and the corporate types hate such commitment to the customer and end product with a passion… Less profit and more effort.

i believe Bert understood this ant it’s how Bert ran Sunova for his clients

and why he had over a one year waiting list and repeat clients

I don’t believe Firewire will alllow it because of the cost issues…

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you can quit here and wait for Bill's writeup..

[=Blue]Ok guys, I have had a couple of surfs on the Firewire Fish. Waves 3’ to 6’ Haleiwa and another spot the next day.

First though a disclaimer. 5’10 Fishes aren’t ideal for the North Shore. Nor are they ideal for 57 year old… old surfers. I haven’t been surfing that much this summer either so I am not on the top of my game. Still the board was fun and my first impressions were positive.

The board paddled quite good for being so small. It didn’t have any real glide but moved quickly with each stroke. It reminded me a lot of the feel of short boards I have had in the past. In particular, it really reminded me of the twin fins that we were making at Hobie in the first go around of this design. We were experimenting with Hollow boards and the feelings were memorable and quite similar.

In spite of paddling well for the size it couldn’t get in early enough for me. So I was relagated to a lot of late take offs! But the board would recover well even when launching over with the lip. I on the other hand, didn’t always recover as well! Because the board would really spurt out once it hit green water. Often leaving me flying off the tail. As I wasn’t expecting it to plane up and recover so quickly.

It turned well but not great for how short it was. It seemed to be crying out for long walled up waves and wanted to be pumped down the line. Sadly I didn’t catch enough waves that were up to this task. So I can’t give a proper review … yet!

The buoyancy was superior to Pu/Pe. Almost too corky especially since the rails were fairly boxy, especially in the forward third. Coupled with the width there and thickness, I would have preferred a bit more slender rail.

I will try to catch some more waves after the weekend crowd.

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Bert had been doing some Corecell stuff before he hooked up with Nev. It looks the same as the Firewire construction. Were there not some rocker pictures of the Firewire posted before?


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[=Blue]Greg Griffin picked up the firewire this afternoon to do a set of fins for it, so I won’t be further testing it till it comes back from him. Then I will be able to report on the new fins also.

Greg and I see fins… that is… their function and placement very similarly, so I am comfortable with his concepts and designs. It will be good to see what he comes up with. What we discussed made sense to me so I am looking forward to it…

Of course Bernie aka oneula may never get it back!! Ha!

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I just want everyone to know that this endorsement by Bill cost me alot of money.

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well after 2 hours of reading i had to make it count …

Bert sets the record straight …

so many comments and opinions about my posistion and feelings were so spot on it wasnt funny …

here comes another slant im not sure if anyone has seen yet…

as you know the whole Firewire business has been in existence just over 6 months being formed in march this year …

while being capable of playing a number of roles in this business , the most important role i could play was to get the production systems in place , impart the manufacturing techniques to others and to teach crew the nature of the materials and how to work with them …

other crew handled , finances , marketing , design , presentation , dealing with teamriders , personell management , the list goes on …

its a matter of one step at a time , while it breaks my heart to see stuff i would never build myself , i have to allow others to find out for themselves …

not only those designing within our business but also the guy off the street has to come to the conclusion that different designs work better with different materials …

if a guy is faced with different materials and a different design as opposed to the same design with different materials , people will always stick to what they know …

de-evolve , de-tech , yes maybe , start with the basics …

so yes the reality of marketing has played a role , but its also the start of a logical line of progressive steps that can be introduced as crew become aware of what is needed to improve things …if you have something forced on you, most often people will resist , but if you want it and you understand why you want it then you will buy it …

there is still so much work to be done to get our full production into action and introduce systems and tech to the whole package …

so appart from a handful of customs for longtime special customers a few team boards and R&D ,it will be a while before i will get a chance to have any influence on design in any of the Firewire range of boards …

hopefully by the time ive got the bulk of the setup out the way , some crew will be ready to try the next few logical steps …

i couldnt find the pics , so this one will have to do , i did have one kicking around of someone at backdoor , but this one of a west oz beachy will have to do , i think west oz was as good a proving ground as anywhere …

anyway it was good to get a few hours swaytime in again , dont know when i will get a chance to get back again …

regards

BERT

ps , this guy isnt riding a fish …

but it is a current Firewire …

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thanks for the update and insider info Bert !

who is the guy in the photo …it looks a bit like the segment on taj in “step into liquid” [same location , probably]

cheers

ben

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the pic is recent , a frame grab i got sent , no doubt the footage will end up in some new surf vid , i think it is the same spot as the vid you mentioned …

its sic how close to the shore this place breaks …

regards

BERT

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Aloha Bert

No explanations needed

I think most of us who’ve been following you here understand what this first generation is all about and that the best is yet to come.

Everything has to start somewhere and this is a good and well thought out “start” as painful as it may be for you so just hang on there and don’t let them push you around too much.

I can’t want to see what happens when the “crew” comes up to speed and can start delivering what you’ve already found out. The customs are the future of the BB brainwerks…

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Geez talk about being a kid in a candy store…

looks like chandler already finished, mounted and tested out his “improvement”

I wonder who go to test pilot that guy in 3-5 backyard sunset beach??

hmmm… results anyone?

Before fin shot

After fin shot (compare the FCS plug locations) and the rest of his delectible goodies

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Drooling on that FW, oneula. :stuck_out_tongue:

Wish I could see the foil, because the template looks way better on the grif-fins.

Placement looks too far back to me though. I know, I know, what the hell do I know, right?

But for my taste, and on my personal twins, they just look a smidge too far back. My fish with the 8.5" base keels are 8" from the tail tip, and my twinnie with 6.75 base fins are 10 from the tail tip.

I would really need to ride it to know for sure though. :slight_smile:

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Griff’s theory as best as I can understand it is that from the drive point at the full base the fin needs to be foiled to provide a continuous and clean release of the energy from base to tip which is why his fins look the way they do.

The release of the energy throughout the foil and template of the fin hopefully creates forward motion or thrust each time the fin is engage to capture the energy. This forward thrust is interpreted as both drive and hold in almost any position you can get them in as long as you keep engaging them with pressure. In some cases it actually creates lift in the tail.

It’s released bottled nitrous from a properly oriented and placed curve.

i hope i gave that an answer he would’ve wanted and if I’m wrong maybe he can step in and explain the theorem in person.

He has it all charted out anyway fin by fin.

His handmade fins also move forward and back about an 1/8" to give you some play for adjustment.

those G10’s look like they will flex and snap just like a speedfin or Blakestah truck.

Just look at the tab positions

makes you wonder if they’d hold up…

But if he actually had someone use it out behind his house at sunset well…

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hi Bernie and Greg !

…do they “wiggle” / flex behind the tabs ?

cheers

ben

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Shwuz, I thought the same thing until I realized that now the back edge of the fin is exactly even with the deepest part of the crack. If I remember my fish theory, that’s a key component…

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Griff like to push all his twins further back than normal because that’s where the drive is.

I rode that 6’4" twin in the picture and it rode as good as any thruster without the drag and you only needed two not four fins to get the job done. I always prejudiced big twins with tracking from my old days with them but my quads and this twin from Griff really opened my mind about what could be achieved if done right. And the fin butt crack alignment comment Ben was spot on.

well the proof is in the pudding as they say.

and I’m sure between the knowledge contained in the heads of Greg Griffin, Bill Barnfield and their friends we should get a fair assessment of the pimped/primped off the shelf version and the new “adjusted” version based off what they saw and what they both interpreted what it needed to “make it go” as they say…

so as we sit and wait to hear back from the next round of tests in some decent sized northshore waves we must be polite enough to those around us to wipe the drool from our faces…

But to bring things back into perspective again…

why the hell would a company (other than to make a fast buck) sell the most technologically advanced surfboard in the market and then slap on a set of mediocre or piece of crap fins instead of spending the time to make the best possible fin system you’d need to enhance the design. Hell it only took Greg and Bill one look and a week of handwork in Gregg’s shop to come up with this possible solution.

That’s what irks the old sages like Chandler and others which I’m sure includes Bert who take pride in making the best possible solution they can for their clients… No one wants to spend the time and effort anymnore cause they want the cash…

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Hi Bert

Is the new Surftech board construction the same as yours? It sure looks similar. Not sure of who is who but the advertisement say 4 years development. Funny thing though they should have looked on Sways it was here all the time.

Keep well

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I know that G10 is stiff, but yeah, I could see the potential there for some flex in the back side of those fins. That might be a real fun combo! When are you going to ride it again, oneula? I’m curious to hear your impressions on the new fins.

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retrieving it Sunday from Griff

oceans pretty flat now so we’ll have to see

one thing though it’s been tested in some of the sh*ttiest waves and conditions in Hawaii here in Ewa…

a little funny reading about monkeyshines latest review cause that normal conditions here.

But in my opinion a “state of the art” design should work in all conditions not just powerful waves with glassy lined up walls.

we’ll see what the new fin/fin position does for this short stubby design…

The stock plug positions might be an issue but as usual Chandler put in adjustability in his FCS tab cutouts for small adjustments.

If it smokes like Chandler said it will

maybe Firewire should give him a call for some fin advice…