The laminating video thread. replies including vids ONLY

My teachers were some of the very best on earth, whose level I have not nearly attained. As anyone who does this for a living can attest, at a certain point time is worth more than a little resin saved. My methods are, therefore production oriented. These are basically PE techniques somewhat adapted to epoxy resin. These adaptations are ongoing. Take what works, discard what doesn’t. Know a better way? Show it don’t tell it. I hope to both help others, and be helped by this thread, but others need to contribute for that to happen.

I hope every one of you who has had something to say about laminating here will contribute your own video so that each one of us can do our part to advance the art. I know there are quite a few of you who are extremely proficient, master level, at several, if not all facets of the trade. Why take it all to the grave? I hope every response to my video is accompanied by a video. There are two reasons for this:

1.Criticizing from the sidelines while being too cowardly to expose yourself to criticism lacks credibility. (there’s a dearth of credibility around here, methinks)

2.Video teaches much better than verbal descriptions. And if the purpose of this thread, this place is to share/and teach, rather than to merely bluff and posture without helping anyone, then video is the way to go. If not, then suffermag should just fold sways into their forums. Sometimes I think it’s secretly happened already.

Non contributing commenters will be mercilessly heckled re: their intelligence, breeding, sexual orientation, mothers’ morals, general ugliness, personal odor, fashion sense, dental hygine, level of personal fitness, and most of all LACK OF BALLS.

6.0 x 18 x 2 Rawson, 1.7PCF Marko, spackled, 4oz Hexcel E bottom. 280grams Aluzine - fast hardener

This is unedited footage shot by Sirwanks. I don’t know what the hell he did re: the music or the title of the video. He’s from the Caspian Sea, so maybe it translates better there.

http://video.google.com/url?docid=-371149051680239499&esrc=sr1&ev=v&q=bammbamm808&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.com%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D-371149051680239499&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D-371149051680239499%26q%3Dbammbamm808%26total%3D1%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26so%3D0%26type%3Dsearch%26plindex%3D0&usg=AL29H23PvmJLgweIa34bhXJRm3d3lSsGRA

Kind of hard to see, so here’s a play-by-play:

First I get logos and cloth down. No need to get everything really tight, cause you tension the cloth with the squeegee while laminating. Then I wet out the whole bottom, without letting any resin go off the rails. This takes practice with the squeegee to control the resin up to, but not over the rail. Then I pour almost all the remaining resin onto the board, leaving just a tiny amount in the bucket. The resin is split in half, making a fat bead down the edge of each rail. These are used to wet out the laps. I pull resin off the rail, using my hand to pull it along the hanging lap before it can drip onto the floor. Small amount of waste here, but major time savings. Pull from center towards nose adn tail so you don’t free too many strings. Once the whole thing is wetted out, pull all the excess resin out of the bottom out toward the edges, nose and tail of the board. Use a lot of pressure to button the cloth down tight against the blank and pull out any excess resin. This also leaves the bottom maybe a little too dry. That last little bit of resin left in the bucket now goes onto the bottom to backfill it. Turn the rails loosely once, skipping the nose and tail closures. Then go around the rails again, cleaning and tightening them. close the ends off this time, nice and tight. Take care of any fin system cleanup needed and look for voids, bubbles, etc, and you’re done.

Howzit bammbamm, Nice video,but if I can make some comments to help. First work on how you wet out the rails, should be able to flow them by starting at one end with your squeegee and resin and run it to the other end so the resin sheets the whole rail. It just sort of got me watching you having to spend so much time wetting them out. The way I like to do it is to run a bead of resin along the bottom next to the rail first and then run the squeegee from one end to the other sheeting the whole rail in one flowing motion. This would cut about 2 minutes off your time. After I wet out the rails then I do the rest of the bottom and then do another rail wet out ( just a little resin  ) Then wrap them. Another trick is to scribe the glass with your finger nail down the middle of the stringer before rolling back the glass. This way there's a line that shows you exactly where the glass was before and when you roll the glass back over the lam you have a reference line to follow. Just some little tricks for you, other than that you are doing good.Aloha,Kokua
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Howzit bammbamm, Nice video,but if I can make some comments to help. First work on how you wet out the rails, should be able to flow them by starting at one end with your squeegee and resin and run it to the other end so the resin sheets the whole rail. It just sort of got me watching you having to spend so much time wetting them out. The way I like to do it is to run a bead of resin along the bottom next to the rail first and then run the squeegee from one end to the other sheeting the whole rail in one flowing motion. This would cut about 2 minutes off your time. After I wet out the rails then I do the rest of the bottom and then do another rail wet out ( just a little resin ) Then wrap them. Another trick is to scribe the glass with your finger nail down the middle of the stringer before rolling back the glass. This way there's a line that shows you exactly where the glass was before and when you roll the glass back over the lam you have a reference line to follow. Just some little tricks for you, other than that you are doing good.Aloha,Kokua

I walk a balance between time and materials spent, and using the resin needed to waterfall the lap is more resin than I care to spend. I spent 13 years and about 30,000 laminations (yes, thats accurate) doing it that way and would rather spend the time these days. I only do colored polyester layups that way anymore. Remember epoxy is bloody expensive. Plus I break floors by myself, so the less resin I put there, the easier. I also used the fingernail scribe thing for a few weeks, but consider it “training wheels” and now only use it when I glass on the bias, and the glass won’t roll back down straight. Thanks though. Where’s the vid?

Very instructionnal video, thanks for sharing. However, I think you should were a mask when laminating.

I walk a balance between time and materials spent, and using the resin needed to waterfall the lap is more resin than I care to spend. I spent 13 years and about 30,000 laminations (yes, thats accurate) doing it that way and would rather spend the time these days. I only do colored polyester layups that way anymore. Remember epoxy is bloody expensive. Plus I break floors by myself, so the less resin I put there, the easier. I also used the fingernail scribe thing for a few weeks, but consider it “training wheels” and now only use it when I glass on the bias, and the glass won’t roll back down straight. Thanks though. Where’s the vid?

Wow you are fast and heckle away because I don’t own a video camera. Thank you for sharing your nose technique. I always have a hard time getting it right. Your way is much better. I learned from scratch using only epoxy, so the blazing fast PE way is beyond me. I’ve had problems with foaming and hazes screwing up dark spray jobs if I go too fast with the Aluzine. If I over squeege the flats the resin that is pulled out over the rails is all foamed up and cloudy.

I wet out the flats only now and do the rails with a small hotdog roller. I’ll leave roughly 1/4 of the resin in the bucket so that I have clear clean resin to use with the roller. I tried the foam rollers but they end up soaking too much resin and don’t release the resin into the cloth as well as the cheap short nap ones.

Also the air bubbles on the futures can be frustrating. I give you credit for being so “hands on”. I’ve been pulling the cloth back and basting the boxes with resin. It seems to be helping to reduce most of the bubbles under the glass.

Thanks again.

Good job. I picked up a few tricks and you don’t waste much! I like the fingers on the rail lap technique.

Mahalo,

D

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Very instructionnal video, thanks for sharing. However, I think you should were a mask when laminating.

Had to direct the cameraman. If you look closely, you can see me telling him what to do.

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Good job. I picked up a few tricks and you don't waste much! I like the fingers on the rail lap technique.

Mahalo,

D

Nose cut: Steve Eichner

Hands on: Otis Schaper

Farmer tan: all me

Nicely done, I was thinking you were glassing with epoxy when watching the video. I guess I was right! And you’re right, that stuff is way too expensive to be coating floors with it.

Howzit bammbamm, Didn’t realize you were using epoxy and I agree that it’s expensive to use. As for the fingernail useage, I was taught it back in the 60’s and it was never considered training wheels but a good way to insure you glass laid back down exactly where it was to begin with. Aloha,Kokua

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Howzit bammbamm, Didn't realize you were using epoxy and I agree that it's expensive to use. As for the fingernail useage, I was taught it back in the 60's and it was never considered training wheels but a good way to insure you glass laid back down exactly where it was to begin with. Aloha,Kokua

Realize that I used to laminate 21 boards a day-- yes 42 sides, and that even the time taken to score the glass on each side of each nose would add to my day, so I long ago eliminated every step I could. Since then, I have learned colors, and gone 90% epoxy, which has changed my routine in ways that have slowed it considerably. But avoiding any steps not strictly necessary or worth the extra time (like saving $3 worth of epoxy per board) is an old habit.

My entire trip is based on simplification. Fewer tools, opertations and steps, so if I can get by with one precise, difficult operation instead of two idiot-proof ones, I’ll take the burden of being careful and accurate every time.

Thank you very much for putting your money where your mouth is.

…talking about simplification

so, why do you middle cut the tail lap in a squash tail?

is 1 point more to sand down and can occurs tiny bubbles.

Howzit bammbamm, I see your point as I was in production glassing my self for years. Making things easier is always on my mind and have come up with a few short cuts myself. But the finger nail scribe has always been part of my process and seeing that it only takes about 3 seconds per side I never felt it was a factor in speeding up the process. I just like to make sure the glass rolls back exactly where it was to begin with. If my math is correct 3 x 42 equals 126 seconds which is only 2 minutes and 6 seconds, think I could live with that. Aloha,Kokua

Having been to Mark’s shop once, note that the squeegee he’s using is molded right there in the shop (thanks Mario) and that it’s a good deal softer than either the Thalco or yellow plastic units I have used.

What foam, what cloth, what speed and what grit on that sander?

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Having been to Mark's shop once, note that the squeegee he's using is molded right there in the shop (thanks Mario) and that it's a good deal softer than either the Thalco or yellow plastic units I have used.

The Thalcos get pretty soft if you thin them, taper the edge and keep them soaked in clean acetone continually.

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What foam, what cloth, what speed and what grit on that sander?

That was an EPS blank and a 4oz lap. Mini andle grinder w/5" 60 grit disk and a very flat plastic backing plate. There is no throttle, so speed control is via triggering. Generally run em slow, or heat builds up quickly. You have to store the disks pressed flat. If they wobble even a litte, you might as well throw the board into a wood chipper. Grinding laps this way is very difficult, with almost no margin of error, but once mastered it’s the shortest line between raw lap and dressing the deck.

Lavz took these when I was glassing the Hixell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0EZcVndqhI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1Mlt5Bq_DE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV7FO7-Ov00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyenKUo0H84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9XQ9POvZLo

Thanks bammbamm808 and Sirwanks. I need to make a couple of epoxy boards and that looks like the real deal. Going to save me from a lot of hassle and making lots of mistakes. However, I will probably go a lot slower on sanding the laps;-) Very cool.

 Howzit Honolulu, Want to make your thalco sqeegee more flexable, just slice 1" off the top and scribe 1 side with criss crosses. Leaned this one 40 years ago.Aloha,Kokua

hi bammbamm, 1. thanks for the lam video, i wanna start doing bouble layer (3.7oz.) epoxy lam. i read somewhere that the 2. layer don’t lap but thats what i want in order to protect the rails better. do you recommend anything special for this process?

thanks

uzzi