I read posts by several people about the amazing strength of ICE9 blanks. Included info from the manufacturers. They claimed their decks were withstanding big dents from 200lb guys in heavy Hawaiian surf on boards glassed with just 4oz decks.
I just got a board back from a customer for repairs on the deck. Huge dents where his feet fall. I’d say he’s not quite 200lbs, and a beginner, so he probably doesn’t pop up lightly, but the dents are still ridiculous. They’ve cracked the glass right next to the stringer.
Has anyone else noticed that their decks aren’t holding up to the myths?
I’ve had great success with I9 blanks. What density was it? I’ve found the feather density to be very strong, and hold up well. My big wave board (a 7’0 semigun) is I9 feather, with double six decks and has held up very well. No discernible pressure dents.
Was it epoxy? If so, how long did it cure for before being ridden? Also… are you certain the resin/hardener ratio was exact? If the board was not allowed to reach full cure, or the ratios were off, there’s a good chance you’ll see pressure dents after even one session.
i have had the exact same thing happen to me on a 6’ 2" that i shaped with ice9 mowses. it was kinda weird because there were big pressure dents and the glass cracked right around the stringer. almost looked like a chip in a car windshield. until i saw this thread i just assumed it was due to bad glassing, but what you described is almost identical to what i had happen on one of my boards.
Could you tell us how you glassed the board, for example how many layers of glass on the deck? 4 oz. or 6 oz. glass? What formula blank? Is there any possibility that the stringer was left too high or more foam was taken from the deck side when shaped? Not trying to point fingers or question skills here, just playing devil’s advocate so all the facts are known. I have a few Ice-9 blanks in my garage, one is shaped but none are glassed yet so I want to know what to expect.
Big difference between the Mowses and the Cane formulas. The Cane in the heavier density is pretty hard foam. My 210 lb. brother is a board breaker. The Cane boards I’ve done for him with 4 oz. warp single decks (he likes light boards), will hold up very well to denting. However he has creased 2 boards on bottom turns right at his front foot, boards were both 6’2"s. So yes they can be glassed with 4oz. but double 4 would be better for his abuse.
Mowses is another animal. Foam is super creamy, fast to shape, and LIGHT. A double 4 plus 4 stomp with 4 bottom is lighter than a single 4/4 stomp 4 bottom Cane and not nearly as dent resistant. The double 4 single 4 bottoms are good up to 6’2"-6’4" after that I’ll go 6/4 decks depending on how light and or disposable they want the board. A short board with a 6/4 deck glassed with epoxy is still pretty light and strong.
All boards are glassed with RR epoxy and I’m not home at this point so sorry I can’t remember what density the blanks are. No special order items just the regular (whatever that is), that the supplier ordered.
i glassed it with 4 oz cloth, 2 layers on the deck. I would have to look at a blank catalogue to tell you the exact formula of the blank, but i can get back to you on that. I just took a look at the board though and the stringer is a little high, its definitely not easy to tell, but its not perfectly flush with the foam on the deck in some areas. other than that i dont notice any flaws that would affect those dings around the stringer.
I’m pretty sure it was a feather weight Cane blank. I got it from Brian at Greenlight and I’m pretty sure that’s the only density he has.
It was glassed with a single layer of 6oz with RR epoxy. There’s a change it was not given enough time to cure. I tried to impress upon him that fact, but I think he was too stoked on the new board to care.
The stringer was slightly below the surface, I’d rather scar the foam a bit than have a high stringer.
I’m hoping that the other blanks I glassed will fare better. I’m in love with Ice9 for shaping, but for glassing I’ve had problems with tape sticking and now this.
Please post some more information about your FACTS. I’d like to know what you apparently know. If you could drop the condescension too that would just be swell.
When knee paddlers dented their decks it wasn’t unusual to scuff up in and around the dents and apply localized patches several layers thick. Maybe your client’s board could be reinforced in a similar fashion?
Rachel a cane blank glassed with 6oz single deck should be pretty resistant to denting. I’ve had soft RR glass jobs from low temps during lamination with no cure time. Got to expose the lamination to a bit of heat to get it fully cured.
If the glass feels hard around the dents then I’d suspect your beginner rider might have put his knee into the deck, especially if the glass is cracked near the stringer. If the lamination was a bit soft to cause excessive denting from limited normal use then I doubt that the resin/cloth was hard enough to crack. The epoxy is pretty flexible even after a full cure.
I’d have to say that a single layer of 6oz is not enough, even for small surf. IMHO, double 4oz in the high stress areas would be the minimum for the Cane formula in feather density, in spite of anybody’s anecdotal experiences or website pimping, unless your building disposable boards. Even a deck patch would be advisable if your trying to go lighter. But if you are, why not go with EPS?
Most of us just try to give people what they want, and I understand that. But sometimes what they want is only what they want because they don’t know any better. All stories aside, people need to find out for themselves, sometimes the hard way, what’s what. Jumping on a board too soon… ordering the wrong core material… ordering the wrong glass bill… all mistakes made through a lack of hands on experience. Sounds to me like it may have been this person’s first custom board.
In situations like this, I feel like I have to give “orders” like a doctor would. These orders come with consequences that are stated clearly if the orders are not followed: “If you ride this board before (whatever date), you’ll get pressure dents so bad you’ll be back to have me fix them in a week.” Or… “That’s not much structural integrity… Are you sure you don’t want at least a 3/4 deck patch for some strength? Otherwise, it’s just a matter of time before it breaks if you go out in any kind of decent surf.”
Rachel is a legit board builder. She definitely knows what she’s doing!
The ICE9 blanks we have are Featherweight CANE formula.
A single 6 oz layer on any foam will pressure dent, especially when stomped on.
A 140 lb surfer with catlike reflexes will apply a vastly different force on the deck of a board than a 220 lb bruiser… the lighter surfers can probably get away with a single 4 oz deck with little denting.
IMO it’s better to build boards for longevity than save a few ounces…
I was so stoked on the theory behind 45-45 degree orientation, I’ve started putting patches in that orientation: Tail, top and bottom - deck, under front foot - nose, bottom (Broke most my board there.) Can’t say for sure how much better it is, as I’m not making “control” boards for scientific purposes, but I’m with all those who say a little more weight can equal much more strength, and I’ve ended up with problems on decks w/4x4oz w/out 45-45 orientation, but, then again, I’m using 6oz now too.