I saw a Surfing rag in the racks at one of my local grocery establishments last night, the 2003 Surfboard Design Issue. Pretty sad, some profiles of some pros and a sample of what they ride (length and width only), and some silly comments like, “I like this board because it turns good”. I did not expect more than this, but I did buy the mag for an article they ran about the Cobra factory, including some pics of the facility. They put a somewhat positive spin on it but without being too blatant about it. I found it interesting because of the comments posted on this site and those on the surfer mag BB (as brought to light by - tri fins are dangerous - on this site). They did a whole article on Man vs. Machine and had some comments from some well know shapers. I was reading through, contemplating this technology and were its place is in the grand scheme of things. Then at the bottom of the page I see a quote from one of my shaping heros Skip Frye, in which he states that “THE REAL ENEMY IS THE BACKYARD GUY”. Not the corporate mongers and mass producers out there but the little guy (like me and most of you) who according to Mr. Frye, “hasn’t paid his due, or taxes. Can shape a board, take it somewhere get it glassed and sell it. I can’t compete with those guys.” He attributes backyard shapers to keeping the price of boards down to a 20 year constant, thereby hindering him and others like him from making a decent living. I think it is more like the simple rules of supply and demand. The same static price levels can be seen in the skateboard industry, and there is no where near as many guys out there making there own wheels, trucks, decks, than there are guys building surf boards. I may be way off base, and maybe someone out there can enlighten me. And I mean no disrespect to those professionals who contribute to this site. I just thought I would throw this out there and see what kind of response there was. I was pretty shocked that guys like me are more dreaded than the evolving pop out market market. Years of experience and quality workmanship, in a perfect world, will always prevail?
Then at > the bottom of the page I see a quote from one of my shaping heros Skip > Frye, in which he states that “THE REAL ENEMY IS THE BACKYARD > GUY”. Not the corporate mongers and mass producers out there but the > little guy (like me and most of you) who according to Mr. Frye, > “hasn’t paid his due, or taxes. Can shape a board, take it somewhere > get it glassed and sell it. I can’t compete with those guys.” The backyard guy might be his personal enemy given the marquee values attached to his handcraftsmanship, but the backyard guy isn’t the enemy of the surfboard manufacturing industry, either custom or mass-produced. There is nothing like making your own board for the first few times to make somebody appreciate a professional product made by experienced people. The glass shops need the backyard guy to keep from having all their eggs in one customer basket. The materials suppliers probably get a good chunk of R&D done free by the mad scientists and hackers. As for Mr. Frye personally, from what I understand he isn’t hurting for work on a custom basis, and could probably name his price if he wanted to do production work.
It would be interesting to know how many boards Mr. Frye turned out before he became “legit”, you know before he got so big he needed to hire crew and rent space. Like Nels said, I would think Skippy would have all the custom work he could handle, but I guess the BYB are cutting into his production profit or something. I am sure he could come out with a pop-out model or two and more than offset the difference and at no extra cost to himself. Just collect those endorsement checks. If this sounds like a rip of SF forgive me, it just pisses me off when people forget where they came from.
Skippys quotes just show that being a talented shaper doesn’t necessarily go hand in hand with business sense. If he can’t leverage his considerable reputation to overcome the “backyard guys” he’s just a p*ss poor businessman. It’s a bs arguement anyway…everywhere I’ve surfed, the local shaped and brand names outnumber the home-shaped a hundred to one easily. He also assumes that a backyard shaper took a sale away from a manufacturer, and that’s not necessarily the case. The backyard shapers effect on the market is insignificant.
Skippys quotes just show that being a talented shaper doesn’t necessarily > go hand in hand with business sense. If he can’t leverage his considerable > reputation to overcome the “backyard guys” he’s just a p*ss poor > businessman. It’s a bs arguement anyway…everywhere I’ve surfed, the > local shaped and brand names outnumber the home-shaped a hundred to one > easily. He also assumes that a backyard shaper took a sale away from a > manufacturer, and that’s not necessarily the case. The backyard shapers > effect on the market is insignificant. I started 40 years ago,we “underground” types essentially put most of the big manufacturers out of business back in the sixties.The big guys just didnt get the short board picture and most of them went fishing.I got out of board building in the late seventies and relapsed back into the addiction around five years ago.What amazed me was the number of small builders out there…every little coastal town has a group of individuals building boards.I mean I waltzed in to Clark Foam of florida and bought 2 blanks…that was impossible in the early days.The sales guy said that half or more of their sales were to amateurs. This aint rocket science guys,anyone can build a rideable board.Thanks to places like Swaylocks you can get the info that you need.In a nutshell the small guys feed the industries that count (foam,resin,glass etc.)Keep on carving. R. Brucker
fuck Skip Frye, I figure 90% of shapers start in the backyard including him I’m sure. go to any pro shop and say “hey, I’m intrested in training to become a shaper” unless you got friends it probably ain’t gonna happen and Skip would more than likey laugh you out of his shop. You gotta be good to get a job. how do you get good? practice. so you’re in your backyard.
It would be interesting to know how many boards Mr. Frye turned out before > he became “legit”, you know before he got so big he needed to > hire crew and rent space. Like Nels said, I would think Skippy would have > all the custom work he could handle, but I guess the BYB are cutting into > his production profit or something. I am sure he could come out with a > pop-out model or two and more than offset the difference and at no extra > cost to himself. Just collect those endorsement checks. If this sounds > like a rip of SF forgive me, it just pisses me off when people forget > where they came from. I,ve always made my own boards, wll shaped them, then had someone glass.Its fun and very satisfing to ride your own creation. Who can afford to buy retail every couple of years? Also as I,m a kneeboarder no one makes them anymore.
I’ve had a few Frye’s (still do) and was pretty happy with the boards even though the shapes had some technical issues (even I can see that they aren’t perfectly symmetrical -but I guess no hand shaped board is), the pro glasswork (Moonlight)had some problems with leakage around the “through the box” attachment and various spots have turned brown where there is absolutely NO DING - just pin holes through the glass job. The box installations are very basic and one broke after NO IMPACT (just hard turns) and the other leaked at the front after MINOR fin impact. I’ve lived with these little issues - fixed them up and rode 'em and have always given S.F. the kudos I felt he deserved. Now he has declared that I (being a part time backyard builder) am the real enemy. Bummer - I guess in retrospect, they were overpriced and difficult to get anyway. I’m sure it won’t affect his bottom line but I don’t think I’ll be buying another. Makes me appreciate guys like Jim Phillips and Roger (Cleanlines) who arguably have equal or better skills and are willing to help the little guys out instead of declaring war on them.
send your skateboard analogy in a letter to the editor.
…Skip, bad week to stop sniffing glue?huh? The backyarder has ALWAYS been the industies foundation/roots,without it…skippy,the industry as we know it , would die a hard,quick death.Herb
Hmm- I think I read Skip’s comment a little different-I don’t think he’s refering to fellas who make a couple boards for themselves and their friends. rather he is refering, I think correctly, to the guys who shape more than a few boards, have 'em glassed, and sell them for a little above cost of production, thereby forcing other shapers to sell cheap too to hold on to market share.Don’t you see it in your town? I have a friend who shaped a couple plugs for surftech and he says that he makes more profit when surftech sells one of his models than when he shapes and sells one himself-sad,45 years of shaping and he can’t make a decent living practicing his craft. In my industry(agriculture) all the worst comes from low profit and low prices. When growers aren’t making money environmental care and worker’s safety and well being go right out the window- i can’t imagine it is different in the surf business. Also, in my experience, Skip is such a fine person that it hurts me to hear people disrespect him for expressing his opinion.Swaylock on!
God bless our fore fathers and our bretheren who have shared with us their knowledge, critique’s, and encouragement. Especially the local shapers, glasers, and surfers who I’ve had the opportunity to learn from. I’m glad that none of them considered me an ‘enemy’.
…Skip,>>> bad week to stop sniffing glue?huh?>>> The backyarder has ALWAYS been the industies foundation/roots,without > it…skippy,the industry as we know it , would die a hard,quick > death.Herb Herb your so full of shit it stinks.
God bless our fore fathers and our bretheren who have shared with us their > knowledge, critique’s, and encouragement. Especially the local shapers, > glasers, and surfers who I’ve had the opportunity to learn from. I’m glad > that none of them considered me an ‘enemy’. Long Live the Underground!!! Enough said… Rob
Herb your so full of shit it stinks. Bill- your stinky herb is so full of shit. Have fun.
I kind of wonder in what context Skips comment was made? You have to remember that the mags are so far up the corporate ass(surftech- the cartoon about the custom shaper as a dying breed) that I have a hard time believing anything from them anymore! Would Skip really say that, knowing there are plenty of people out there who remember when he was having a rough time-living and shaping behind select surfshop in a shed-S.A.
Maybe the problem is the large corporations and the mass media have no contol over the backyard underground. The fact that a group of unorganized surfboard builders exist,and they don’t give a rats ass what the pros ride or how they dress does not fit their marketing profiles. I’ll sell a board for whatever price seems fair at the time. It’s nobodys business but mine and the guy buying the board.
If you spend enough $ advertising in the surf media, your marketing hyperbole will probably become their editorial content. Reality is whatever you perceive it to be. Honor and respect everbody who surfs and builds boards. Best regards, Vince the Grinch
Sorry, but I think the problem - if there is one, would be advancing technology. The technology that allows kids to start making boards in their backyards that are good enough to sell and take a slice of the market. If boards were still carved out of rectangle blocks of polyurethane, shaping would be a lot more difficult, less people would do it, and the difference between pro and amature made boards would be greater. Now, shaping has given me great respect for the pro board that I didn’t have before. But if your claiming that a bunch of backyarders are taking a slice, than obviously they are making boards, to sell at a price, that the consumers find reasonable. Creating their own micro-market - supply and demand. Its a shame for the vet shaper - artist - struggling to make a living, but you know what they say about starving artist. I’ve loved quantum physics since I was old enough to grasp the smallest bit, as I’ve loved astonomy and cosmology. Did I pursue it as a career - no, I wussed out and became an engineer. All my physicist friends are scrounging for jobs, I have headhunters wearing out my answering machine. Sad, but reality…
Hmm- I think I read Skip’s comment a little different-I don’t think he’s > refering to fellas who make a couple boards for themselves and their > friends. rather he is refering, I think correctly, to the guys who shape > more than a few boards, have 'em glassed, and sell them for a little above > cost of production, thereby forcing other shapers to sell cheap too to > hold on to market share. I guess a good question would be did the magazine you read this in just print what you quoted, or was it part of a larger bit? Frye wasn’t too specific in what was quoted. As for backyard businesses, their quality must be okay or they wouldn’t be competition to more established outfits. Don’t you see it in your town? I have a friend who > shaped a couple plugs for surftech and he says that he makes more profit > when surftech sells one of his models than when he shapes and sells one > himself-sad,45 years of shaping and he can’t make a decent living > practicing his craft. In my industry(agriculture) all the worst comes from > low profit and low prices. When growers aren’t making money environmental > care and worker’s safety and well being go right out the window- i can’t > imagine it is different in the surf business. Hmmm…oh well…yes, profit is good. The problem is that nobody is owed a good profit. Many surf shops are so terribly run and managed that it’s amazing so many are still in business. They seem to be at the mercy of the clothing industry, and probably get jerked around by manufacturers and customers alike. The ones who do a good job selling boards - i.e. ascertaining what the customer wants and needs and outfitting him or her properly within that context - are few and far between. And that hurts the board manufacturers, or at least the boutique ones with low production and high price tags - the consumer doesn’t get educated. And trust me, guys, it isn’t up to the consumer to educate him or herself as to why your $700-$850 board is worth it. And it would be so easy to fix this with a little training and paperwork. Sad but true. Also, in my experience, Skip > is such a fine person that it hurts me to hear people disrespect him for > expressing his opinion.Swaylock on! His opinion as quoted was expressing disrespect. That blade cuts both ways. One thing about this particular spot in cyberspace is that most of us are fairly mature, or at least as mature as this sport allows, and we all seem to cut people slack. I would say few of us really disrespect Frye for what he was quoted as saying; we probably just disrespect the comment. We all have good days and bad day, eh?