THE SEARCH GOES ON........(secret fin foil)

Yes, the search goes on.      Not for the fin or foil, but for a business relationship that leads to producing the revolutionary fin.     The improvement in performance has been demonstrated/proven.   I just want to get it out there, without getting ripped off by thieving copycats.     It’s frustrating.      Only one SwayBro has seen and used the fin.     His fin in fact, that I altered the foil on, that he then surfed it on the board it came from.     The improved performance of the board was both evident and significant.      I look forward to hearing from an interested party.

Bill

Sounds a bit like the Greg Griffin thread. I hope both of you reap success from your ideas.

 There’s so many pitfalls with this sort of endeavour, if either of you have a business partner to inject funding and business acumen, yours would have to be an opportunity that’s more lucrative for them than doing something else.

if a partner is doing most of the heavy lifting they might want a major share in any and all turnover for many years to come, they might only loan you the money, and having a partner usually involves a compromise in many decisions.

The worst thing would be to tie yourself to someone with a small business and hope they can make a big business with your product.

Once something’s proven a success, there’s no stopping companies in copying your design and then you’re up for long and painful legal battles where you may not recoup anything. Or foreign manufacturers may flood the market at a fraction of the cost.

At the same time there’s endless profit and a secure future for the right product / right time / right marketing / right price but you’ll need to be a great spokesman, advertiser, understand online and sales, social media, contract law ( if you’re going to license others to make your product ) Many years ago it was enough to have a fantastic product and just be the creative genius, but in modern times that’s not enough to even get off the starting blocks. Bill, you’ve got a background in business ? I don’t know what type of business but you should be able to do this easily ?

Have you spoken with Larry @ Fiber Glass Fin Co.?

roger

Greg’s  thread is what inspired me.

   Not yet.      Larry would be a natural fit.     I think I’ve solved what could have been a production problem, in a high volume setting.

Bill

I hope -Greg does well at whatever he’s doing. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.that said, almost anything is a gamble. But I give him credit for growin sum and having the balls to try.

Bill- how you doing! I’m sure you know about Brewer fins, right? Question: does the 8" brewer fin work well in most conditions? I had blew it and lost my fin bcuz I forgot to remove it out of my fu box! Darnit! It was fu**ing a beautiful fin! I never spun out with that fin ever! No joke. I had it on my 6’10" west cliff Vinson shaped stinger. I think I am going to order one. Fyi mine was blue black, and the best single fin I ever owned.

Short answer: Yes.   California beach slop, to Sunset Beach, as big as you’d care to ride it.      That also includes everything in between.     Little known fact:   What we all call a Brewer Fin, was not designed by him, but by an engineer friend of his.  

Bill

Bill - ty for the info! Now to find the same blue/black
one I sold w my old board. I do recall it worked perfectly on my board. That Said, it was a beautiful fin -which made my cut back sharp n smooth.
Hope to see your fin once you get all the copyright dealt with or whatnot. T c

Hiding in plain sight is a thought.

publish an article and or mail yourself tthe patent proposal 

and find Steve Shaw to be the litigious  elemental 

1940’s slang called em ‘mouthpiece’

or the La Jolla lawyer of your choice…

then let her rip…

parachutes start  to work

when you jump  from a high place. 

once you publish it will forever be 

the Bill Thrillkill Fin.

…ambrose…

phone Sarah at rainbow,

she is real nice to me…

Steve Shaw, I met him when he was a highschooler in La Mesa, Ca.(oh so long ago)     He had published a pamphlet/booklet on how to build a surfboard, as I recall, while still in  High School.      You may be on to something there,  brother 'Brose.    Thank you.

Bill

in reality, you could make anything you want and probably not draw the eye of a competitor unless it went viral. no ones going to compete with you if the pie isnt big enough.

but as it got more popular then youd start to find copycats but you still have the ‘originality’ of it being your idea from the get-go.

once it gets popular it might be time to sell it and move on rather than starting a slew of legal fights over patent treaties between countries and companies and all that misery.

start with the best product you can make, then find distributors that handle global sales and hit the ground running with your idea,  keep a high profile with marketing and social media interest, and take an active 24/7 interest in building the brand. if youre not working your ass off, no one else is going to do it for you.

my pop used to say that if youre selling surfboards youre not competeing with other surfboard sellers but against McDonalds and Apple and Coca Cola because they are all competeing for the same money. you have to convince people that they want to surf rather than have a burger or buy the latest iphone. And thats the sort of business committment you need to have before you spend another day thinking about it.

thats why people have this pipedream of being ‘the creative genius’ and nothing more and hope someone else will do the hard work because business is hard work.

if you  havent got 100 hours a week (every week) to devote to it as well as hundreds of existing relevant contacts and ideas to promote and progress your product and boundless energy to deal with distributors, clients, government departments, and customers, if that doesnt excite you and you dont have a burning drive and real love for business then just sell the idea and save yourself the grief.   itd be like learning to fly when youre afraid of heights,

business is not surfing, its business

This thread made me think of an article I read several years ago writen by Tom Morey. I went back through some of my old e mails and dug it up.

It is a bit wordy but for some reson much of it made sence to me, enough enyway for me to keep it all these years…

 

Tips For Inventors: Garagemanship by Tom Morey

Don’t patent…

I believe it is usually better to give an idea to the public via an announcement, article or video uploaded to Youtube than to start dumping money into attorney’s fees. Patents are expensive to begin with, then suck you dry down line. Then there’s this: in the District of Columbia, seat of the US Patent and Trademark Office, as of 20 years ago (which was the last time I probed the question) from the beginning of this governmental department, no patent action had EVER upheld the rights of the patenter.

Exception: If you develop something that you are sure can be sold to a manufacturer (at say a patent auction… and this is a growing trend), something that you’d never want to take to market yourself, then of course the potential manufacturer needs proof that the thing is yours. And by the way, it is possible to both obtain and sell a patent for which no working prototype was ever built. (Go online and Google patent auctions).

…Promote!

Better use of your money is to develop the doohickey until you have a working prototype. Then, announce it to the world via a trade journal. In my field of surfing this would be The Surfer’s Journal, Surfer Magazine, or online via Surfline.com. This way, you become known as the inventor. For free! Your idea starts to gain notoriety. The fact that a major trade journal published the article gives the gizmo credence.

Because you’ve given it to the public, the public then likes you. Remember, to make money on the doodad you have to make sales. Sales are not about holding a gun to someone’s head because you have the patent. Sales depend on goodwill, good feelings.

Publishing the idea puts it in the ‘public domain’; ends the possibility of anyone else ever preventing you from using it.

Regardless of how you tackle the protection issue, if it’s a good idea, it will in time be ‘knocked off’ by someone. However, as they say, “Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery”. So when copying does take place, the knock off popularizes your idea. You as the established inventor get a free ride not only on all of your imitator’s publicity but also on every one of his advertising dollars.

In fact it is usually not until there is competition that the public wakes up to real value of an invention. Study the sales history of Coca-Cola. You’ll find a tremendous boost in sales that is the direct result of Pepsi-Cola’s efforts.

Today the world market is so huge, no one supplier can satisfy it. The best anyone can do is get a good chunk of the business. Be content with that.

For the most part, the public is quite loyal; its sentiment lies with the ‘original’.

Because you gave this idea to the public, if someone improves upon it, you have every right in the world to incorporate said improvement into your next iteration.

Trademarks—yes!

The best use of your money for protection is a trademark. I trademarked the words ‘Morey Boogie’ back around 1975 for TEN DOLLARS. Best ten bucks I’ve ever spent. People want brand names. Once established, and if maintained, brands can go on for decades. But even better than a trademark is your own name. It is not something you trademark. It IS you. Your name on the product says, “I am the guy who gets the credit or blame for this thing, I’m behind this 100%.” When I was about 17 my dad told me to take the name ‘Morey’ and run with it. I have, and it’s worked out pretty well. There’s nothing better than to have your own name become well known for good works you’ve done. However it is chancy. Screw up and down goes not only your name but also the name of your future family.

If fact it can go down the toilet even if you do well with it. Consider Thomas Crapper, the man in recent generations who did most to create water closet flush toilets. His name and legacy turned to ‘crap’, through no fault of his own, simply because it became more polite to say ‘crap’ than ‘shit’.

One more point on this. Because your own name can become ever more or less valuable in time, you build more personal character—or else.

Publicity

The very best publicity is that your Thingamabob works. That means it: Does what it is supposed to do and does it reliably

Is either so cheap it needs no repairing, just toss and renew, OR is ease to repair.

If for your product, word of mouth promotion is not enough, in today’s world: magazines, news papers, radio stations, TV stations and numerous online services are ever crying for any real news about anything. Write up and or film the gizmo in use, and get it out there with your email address, website and phone number large and easy to find.

Then if and when they call, be sure there is a LIVE, INTELLIGENT and LOVING human answering the phone.

Good publicity is better than good advertisements.

Hire a good publicist. He is always more valuable than a good ad man, whatever (s)he costs is going to be far less than the cost of someone else creating an ad then also the cost of buying the space to run the ad.

Advertising

Study this field thoroughly. Read David Olgilvy’s master piece Confessions of an Advertising Man and make it your ad bible—even though it’s 50 years old.

Product development

As you are developing your idea, do not keep it to yourself. Rather, tell everybody.

By so doing you acquire a great deal of free feedback. Along with bringing forth your ‘great idea’ in conversation, solicit advice and pre-inform the giver that there will be no remuneration from you; that whatever they offer, they are so doing from the goodness of their heart. You’ll be surprised at the depth of improvement your product gains; and how many silly, thoughtless notions you’d held so dear are dispelled.

Two other big things happen when I openly discuss my invention. Often, I soon find my idea really isn’t too original or hot and save myself a lot of time and expense down line. The other thing is that the tendency for others to copy it is defused by the reality that if they were, they’d not only have to compete with you but also be in competition with who knows how many other people you’d been spilling your beans to.

The Seven Sisters of Invention

Name it, draw it, describe it, model it, price it, sleep on it, and discuss it. Repeat. Inventing is not a simple process. I don’t just think of an idea, and then model it. Let’s say I make a few drawings, but then get stuck. I’ll switch to working on the product’s name or a description of some of its features. Or I’ll look up what materials and processes could be used to build it… or just take a nap. Then later I’ll get back on it from some other tact.

When I can’t take an approach any further, I leave it be. Inventions are a little like cats. Walk away from one and it will come after you; pester you on its own.

Maybe a mental picture of something interesting pops into my mind. Or, it could be a clever word, or a pronounced need which I accidentally come across. So I start bringing it along.

Yes, if a prototype seems achievable, I start right on it as soon as possible, even if it’s just sticking together some marshmallows with tooth picks and drawing on them with a marking pen.

If not, I’ll make some sketches; discuss the concept with someone, even a cat or dog. I’ll imagine a price tag on it; then give that tag various prices. I’ll think of how to describe it, write down thoughts about its qualities or usage. I’ll imagine how it could be publicized and advertised, imagine it being used… expand or contract the image of the typical user to the opposite sex, children or the elderly or some special section of humanity, maybe a particular race, religion, sport, activity occupation, location, etc.

As a result of feeding the idea some of this kind of energy it takes on a life of its own. Or, after enough of this, the ‘great idea’ may instead make its way to the back burner; or maybe even the trash can.

Because in this age, there are many opportunities. And it is well to do as was advised in ancient days, supposedly by Jesus as told in a seldom read Gospel of Jesus by the disciple Thomas, “Be like the wise fisherman who cast his net into the sea, brought forth many fish but kept only the largest for himself and threw the rest back."

Environment

If, as you’re trying to come up with creative goods, you’re listening to puke music in the background, angry people shouting for attention, explicating the lowest forms of language and idiot drum beats, well, this is driving with your brakes on.

Listen to real creators, classical composers, jazz masters like John Coletrane, Miles Davis, Lee Morgan, Dizzy Gillespie, Elvin Jones, Charlie Parker, Stan Getz. Listen to music that gives you goose bumps.

Sell One

It’s one thing to dream up a doodad, another thing to turn it into something profitable.

So as you work on your creation, and before you think too much about price, sell one. Get the experience under your belt of making your first sale.

Pricing

If there’s no way you can make the thing for say $1, $10, $100, or $1000 labor and material and retail it to a stranger who will HAPPILY pay $4, $40, $400 or $4000 for it, forget about it as a product. Produce something whose direct cost is $1.00, then your company will have to sell it to the next guy in the market chain for about $2.00 so the company can pay overhead, taxes, returns, and make a little profit on it as well. Between your $2.00 and the final $4.00 sale price are all the cost and profits of middle men and retail outlets.

Yet, it might be that you can only make a decent profit if you both make it and sell it yourself. Ok, so be it. Be content with that. Cut your personal overhead so you can live in your van and travel the world. What could be better?

By the way, when I first started to sell boogieboards I found I had two kinds of friends; the ones who felt that because they were my friend, they were entitled to a special deal. Then there were my real friends, “Tom, I think that thing is terrific. I insist on paying full price in support of your efforts.”

Design

If there is any criterion for determining beauty, again IF, then it is function.

Colors

Take your camera to the local garbage dump, and shoot random pictures of its contents.

You’ll find many color combinations. Build a product colored like one of these schemes and someone will love it. But probably… more than likely, not many people. Color combinations that you, your friends for artists, come up with probably will not last. Instead, take your cues from nature

Nature’s favorite colors seem to be shades of blue. That’s what there are the most of; witness the colors of the sky and sea.

Greens and the various colors of bushes come next, or perhaps desert tans.

A favorite color scheme is the gradiation of a dark blue sky, down to lighter, then sun rise or sun set colors, then the sand of the beach.

Other great color schemes can be taken from the exact combinations on various birds and fish.

Materials

Material types, grades, fabrication techniques are not infinite and should be regularly studied by any serious innovator.

Scale, speed, hue, intensity.

These are a few of the variables which, when applied to music, make tremendous differences. So as well if/as applied to your product. For example, what fits pretty well, might, if redesigned to fit exceedingly well (the foot, the group, and the mood, whatever) make a considerable difference.

Fill needs yet so they’ll want it.

The needs and wants of humans seldom coincide. Clean air, we both want and need. However, we often want what is not best for us. Cater to needs, and over the long term you’ll greatly increase your market. Present what you create in such a way that they also want it but keep your focus on providing what you’d want for yourself, what is good for others.

Enough for now.

Aloha sonOsea,

Thank you for ferreting out the Tom Morey comments.      Very sound food for thought.    That may well be the path that I take.    I like the idea of using Surfer Mag, or Surfers Journal, to launch the new fin into the public arena.    We’ll see what happens, eh?

Bill

 

if thinking of a global effort, you’ll need investors, scalable production capacity, serious marketing = significant front end capitol.  In which case your current efforts should be based on creating an effective perspectus and lining up meetings with capitol investors/potential partners to make your funding and sales pitch.

Lot easier to implement a home grown,smaller scale approach.  Line up local production, consider widening your test rider program, get a web site prepared, TM the fin, and develop your marketing approach.  If you decided to partner with an in state fin manufacturer, lot of those issues wold be resolved, and getting the fin noticed would become the primary challenge.  Surfing is saturated with ‘area’ surfing salesmen who rep wetsuit brands, watches, clothing, etc.  Making routine trips up and down the coasts, dropping into all the surf shops, pitching their products.  Getting some fins into the hands of those travelling salesfolks a good way to get the word out, and tie it together with a product launch.

For that, consider contacting Scott Huett at TSJ to pitch your idea, ask him if he would be interested in having someone write it up.  Or, you could directly contact one of TSJ contributors who has landed pieces on surfboard design and see if they would like to do an article for submission.  Either way, you’d want some good demo fins available for the neccessary photographs, and some action shots of your fins at work.  

And I’ll throw a wild card at you.  Rusty surfboards has been doing really well on sales of their single fins, you might consider provindg some samples once you have TM’d your fin.  Spent an hour chatting with Rusty’s son Clint 2 weeks ago while he was up here in Oregon on a board demo run, and Clint appears to be both stoked and open minded about the business.  If you could land some fins with them, that could be  highly valuable pilot testing feedback with some obvous marketing value. 

Aloha lcc,

Interesting that you mention Rusty.     About five years ago, I was approached by Rusty at La Jolla Shores, when he spotted my personal board with my twin setup.    He had quite a few questions about it, as we pow-wow’d in the parking lot.     He invited me to come by his shop, but he was not willing to explore anything about the fins.   I think his sales were not broke, so there was no need to fix anything, if you know what I mean.      About two or three years ago, in someone’s fin thread, I predicted the ‘‘re-discovery’’ of the single fin, since there are several generations of surfers now that have only known twin and tri fin, fin configurations.    I did my first 3 fin,  2 plus 1/Thruster fin setup, in 1964.    In late 1970 developed and marketed the PressLock removable tri fin system.    So, I’m not a stranger to how and why fins do what they do.   However, most surfers, and surfboard builders are.      I’m reminded of a conversation I had once with a respected builder who described his fin’s toe and cant settings to me.    When I asked why he was doing that, the answer was, ‘‘Because it’s always been done that way.’’     The market may, or may not,  be ready to experience what a highly efficient single fin board can do.    The speed and maneuverability that the ‘‘secret fin foil’’  imparts to a surfboard, will blow a few minds I’m sure.    I envision a middle of the pack, contest surfer, using the fin to vault to the front of the pack.     I’m sure that would get the requisit attention, eh?

Bill

 

 

 

" I envision a middle of the pack, contest surfer, using the fin to vault to the front of the pack.     I’m sure that would get the requisit attention, eh?"

The emergence of the quad as an increasingly popular choice by the top pros for heavy barrels, due to their inate speed and drive, bodes well for a game changing single fin, perhaps a “if it works they will come” opportunity.

While recovering from hip surgery, spent a couple of hours one morning on a higher viewpoint watching one of the better surfers hereabouts, an emergency room doctor who favors non tradtional boards, put on a tube riding show in some hollow and heavy beachbreak on a beak nosed single fin.  Watching him reminded me how nothing draws a cleaner line through the barrel.

best of luck with this, Bill, look forward to a time when I can view the fin.  

Start with a business plan just to see what ideas you have and how you want it to proceed.

pm sent