The WAVEWING hydrofoil (Florida style)

General Discussion
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surfersensei,  I didn’t get a chance to ride Josh’s board on that Sunday but just watching it being ridden I was also impressed with that board’s ability to catch and stay on those piles of mush we had that day.

I look forward to being able to try yours when you get it…btw looks like there might be a little surf this weekend, you going to be around?

 

 

Thanks for the report Brett.

I wasn’t too keen on going out on the surf the first time with that hard board and exposed bolts on the deck and I didn’t want to spend any more money on the project until I’m sure it will work,

so without spending any money or cutting anything at all really,( I didn’t even have to poke new holes in the board),

I was able to piggyback my boogieboard onto the top of the wakeboard to provide the padding and bouyancy that I wanted…

I put it upside down for better hydrodynamics.

if it turns out to be  a surfable setup I will cut down a sacrificial boogieboard to the width of the wakeboard… 

 I took it to the pool to see how it felt to paddle it around in the water…

It paddles GREAT ,so well that It has me rethinking my low volume approach…

I was way up out of the water compared to before.

and the balance feels good…

I can’t wait to get this in the surf…

My main goal with this is testing to see if my idea that a board with semetrical rocker (and lots of it) is the most complimentary shape for my foil.

But I’m also looking at how long of a board can I use before it gets in the way.

 

 

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I mentioned your projects to a friend who suggested going w/ a kneeboard for the foil. Might be an interesting option. You would get the perspective of standing up but w/ a more controllable position for the foil. Dave, I am out of town Sat. but may be available Sun. It depends if the wife wants to go paddling or to the beach.

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Dave, its a matter of putting various pieces together to see what works best. You must’ve seen the kite foilers and their boards are solid laminations with no bouyancy for paddling required. So maybe its a matter of laminating more layers on our kite/ wakeboards and then topping with boogerboard style EVA.?

 Im sure the Aluminium pieces I’m using will work, but they’re not a long term solution.

 Anyway we do it, in order for the boards to be strong enough then the boards aren’t going to be comparably light like a modern surfboard. For prone riding I wouldn’t go much longer than 5 foot because it feels odd having so much board in the air and for standup foiling no longer than 6’6", there’s no benefit in a longer board when it’s not in the water. Its only there for paddling and as a platform to stand on.

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so …

 

…  in feet and inches , is that kiteboard something like 4’9 x 17" x 2 " ?

 

how much does it weigh ?

 

HOW do you paddle something with such a low volume into waves , and jump to your feet ?

 

I would struggle trying that , even with my light 61kgs …

 

 cheers !

  ben

 

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… with maybe a ? 5’6 - 6 ’ x 19" x 2 1/4 " [ ?] - 2 3/8" [?]  finboxed foil  version , however …

 

[and , in good waves …]

 

:slight_smile:

 

  = [possible] joy !        :slight_smile:

 

By the way … the other day , I found that few seconds of [too far away] footage that I took , of Al ‘foiling’ on your board , on that one wave at harbord…

 

On WHAT  thread were those [ land ] photos that your relo took , of that momentous SECOND filmed [and more successful] occassion , please , dr. hydrofoil ??

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Not sure what thread Ben, but with the various incarnations of Sways formats, it easier to use the search box and dig around. And I’ll ask my cousin Adam Rowlison for the original pics and footage.

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surfersensei, I hope for your sake your wife chose paddling in some sheltered cove somewhere yesterday cause the wind was significant at the beach…

I’m not sure if a kneeboard would be a good candidate for the foil or not, but riding on my knees is not really a choice for me ,my right one doesn’t like it at all…

Surffoils I don’t seem to be having the stiffness issues that you are experiencing,I believe that wakeboards are generally a little stiffer than kiteboards because it has to take some harder hits.

I also think that the rails on my board are made of wood…

I was able to get the new setup in the water on Friday evening…

It was not magical, but it was interesting.

I am still digesting the experience a little,

I could catch and ride waves without much problem, but it kept trying to spin out…

the other thing was it kind of porpoised at times…

one of the things I was sure needed to be fixed was that the board extended too far back behind the foil,

so I’ve moved it back as far as I practically could (7 inches). and moved the boogieboard back the same amount (roughly)…

I’ve also traded the small fin from the wakeboard for a LARGE fin, butchered to suit 

but the thing that I hope has the most effect on tracking is the two repurposed fins I’ve added to the tails,

you can’t tell from the pics but they are toed way out to concur with the flow under the foil but I have drilled holes to straighten them if need be.

 

I may end up cutting the front end off also if it seems too long…

We shall see

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yeehaa

 

  did you guys see the hydrofoil board , from the 1970s surf mag ad ,

 

  that ‘oneula’  bernie kindly posted …on my single keel thread … ??

 

 

   cheers

 

  ben

 

p.s. - brett …I came across the thumb drive I have , with the photos and one tiny 2 second clip that I took a year ago , in sydney , of Al standing on your hydrofoil board. Stay tuned !

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Ben, here’s the pic of that Hydrofoil board…

 Its hard to tell what’s going on but it looks like a handrail along the stringer with several vertical supports, maybe ?

Surfsensei, Ive knee boarded on the bodyboard foils and its completey different from prone because you lose the stability of having your legs/ feet/ fins drag in the water behind. Once you whole body is on board stability can only come from the foil and IMHO a foil needs to be a minimum so 24 inches long for knee or standing riding.

Dave if you’re putting yourself further forward on the wakeboard and leaving less ‘feet and fin’ in the water that could be why you’re getting that ‘yaw’ and porpoising because the foil is providing all or almost all lift and losing the stability of your feet behind. Moving the foil back will help if it allows more of your feet for balance.

 Ive been riding shortboard foils and I’m moving the foils out to 28 -30 inches in length. By comparison, the foils Laird is riding are around 36 inches long.

There’s a definite correlation between length and ‘pitch’ stability that’s as clear as the connection between width and lateral balance.

The Aluminium rods have stiffened the kiteboard so I can stand on it.

( sharp eyes will notice Kevin our pet Kangaroo in the background, he’s so domesticated he lives inside during winter)

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Hi Ben,

What is the benefit of a keel on a board? 

I wish there was a better image of that foil board…

It looks like the foil is modular,might have to try something like that on the stand up board I made a while back…

Hi Brett,

That aluminium stiffened it right up didn’t it…

You’re right the spinout effect was because I was to far behind the pivot point and too far out of the water to be the rudder,

I think the porposing might have been an effect of the uniform rocker of the board not having a sweetspot, making it possible to rotate and change the pitch of the foil without any effort.

 I think moving the foil to the back will also help with that…

Beleive it or not my foil is 24" long overall but the tails being flexible sacrifices some of the stability…

I think I will cut out some foils like yours and put them on in place of the tails to feel the difference…

The big fin I put on the back of the board probably won’t be a practical solution to the yaw problem.

I’m counting on the little ones that are down in the water to be the answer, but you never know until you try… 

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Maybe the porpoising is related to the horizontal angle (front to rear) of your foil relative to the bottom of your board.

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possibly NO advantage , wooddave ,

 

…although …

 

 wayne lynch reckoned  [ in the extras in the recent " uncharted waters " dvd ] that he " learnt more about riding big waves and water flow up the face , on those boards than on any other " …

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Here’s a mini version, a 25" foil on a 30" skim board, I’ll give it a whirl tomorrow.

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 Dave with my foils I use the vertical arms to provide the yaw control. I always keep the vertical arms as far apart so that they create a dual fin effect. With a single vertical arm the craft only has one point that it can yaw around, with two vertical arms placed as far apart as possible it creates two points of resistance to stop yaw.

 The lowest part of the vertical arms just above the foil will be in the water so I design the arms at that level to be as far apart to create the stability needed.

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New ‘connectors’ between board and foils…

 I wonder what Daves up to ??

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I’m looking forward to seeing how they go together…

Funny you should ask what I’ve been up to…

We had a three day weekend here with no surf in sight so I got busy on something that I’ve been kicking around in my head for a while.

This is the paper mock up

Then on Saturday I started to build this a mold to form a composite loop…

But I wasn’t happy with the shape, so on Sunday I started over with a different plan…

I layed it out on paper and cut the profile…

Then I cut it out and used a piece of plastic strap to mark the bend apex…

Transferred the marks onto masonite and aluminum sheet and scribed lines to mark orientation for bending…

Worked out all of the arcs and curves on masonite and cut out one a side template…

Cut it out of the aluminium, and bent at the apropriate spots and mounted to a jig to ensure it held the right shape…

dry fitted the lam and wet out, used a piece of mylar on top to help with rib rolling …

Came back on Monday and trimmed it up…

Mounted it to the board (I will make a bracket to attach tail to the fin).

I usually sand the surface before I mount anything but I’m trying to save time until it proves it’s worthiness.

The overall length is now 25 inches, I took the foil and tail into the pool (no board or strut) and pushed it around for a while it has a noticeable effect on the pitch stability as well as yaw control,

   I won’t really know anything until it hits the surf…

 

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Dave, that’s an amazing development, the whole addition makes sense to me and the way you’ve incorporated horizontal and vertical surfaces is cunning and looks cool too ! Its a great combination.

 As you’ve said, The twin horizontal surfaces will give more ‘pitch’ control as the power varies and the vertical surfaces will stop any yaw. I’m sure splitting the horizontal arms will give better control on a steep face. Have you thought to reduce the planing area in other areas to compensate for the increase from the new part ? 

im sure your addition is going to be a real leap forward in performance.      

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Something Ive noticed with prone foils but not shortboard versions is that as the speed decreases there’s more drop due to the weight of the rider at the back of the craft.  Having that extra horizontal surface at the back will give you better low speed ‘run’.

 

 

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Thanks Brett,

The shape more or less is modeled after the shape of the water flow coming off the back of the main foil that I saw in the pool vid (blue).

The surface area has increased but the weight is about the same,

The new foil I build will be a little narrower and the one after that may be a bit more scalloped (the red lines).

but I would like to find a way to control the lift rather than reduce it if possible.

I’m also going to try to put the tail at the front of the foil at some point, it had an interesting effect when I tried it by hand in the pool

There are a few subtle things that I hope might make a difference too…

The uprights being angled in as they are, hopefully will help decrease the pitch as speed increases.

 I’m also hoping  the curve of the transition from horizontal to vertical will suck water up it (like a nice round surfboard rail) to maintain hold even on top of the water…

time will tell… 

 I’ve gotten it all together and paddled around in the pool with it, it tracks straight and paddles well,

I’m pretty sure I’ll be cutting the front of the board off eventually, seems too long but I’ll wait a bit on that…

How bout some pics of those mounts?? 

 

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Dave, when I started I thought…what’s the best I can make ? What would it be ? And I figured it would be several things…

 1/. It’d work. At all speeds, on all waves, and for all people, but that’s not possible so Ive tried to make it work across a wide spectrum  so most people could ride it.

2/. It’d be safe. From the start, hydrofoils all look as safe as a flying set of steak knives so there’s a lot of room to design out the points and edges.

3/. It’d be simple to use. There’s nothing worse than a new product that requires a college degree to get it up and running. That annoys me and it’s something that’s missed a lot these days with new design products and gadgets.

4/. It’d be simply minimalist design. Some things are so complex to produce and require specialist skills to fix, so I wanted to make something that could be put together, repaired or  replaced with basic skills. Keeping it simple also makes for a physically smaller product that’s easier to transport and store. Simple design keeps it cheaper too.

5/. It’d be lightweight. Surfing is more fun with lighter gear. Easier to carry to the beach or along the rugged path. Light also makes it respond quicker and has less form drag.

 

As soon as I built the connectors below, I redesigned a new set that are half the weight and much simpler to build.

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