bitchin.
a big slice of the theoretical cake
actually.
…ambrose…
go man go!
Just a random thought for stand-up boards, the only thing you need the board for is paddling. Once you catch the wave you’re on the foil, so it seems a really short, wide, thick fish-type board would be ideal. Then you don’t have the extra length and pointy bits. Something around a 5’6" but super thick to paddle easy and get in early. For mounting you could use the same approach of plywood stringers on the deck and bottom, just recess them into the foam.
Trying to wrap my head around how to implement this on a kiteboard, but I’m wondering if the high side-loading would cause problems with the vertical struts.
Insanely cool, yet cheap and functional approach to R&D. Would be cool to see some video of you in action on the bodyboard. I can’t even imagine how it would look going down the line and doing bottom turns and top turns.
Lawless, it seems each part is up for re-design… foil, strut(s) and board.
The board design is certainly low on the list of priorities as it doesnt affect the riding performance, just as long as it paddles quickly. Just a comfortable length and bouyancy required. Maybe chunky thick, 5’6" up to 7’0", with a Nugget type of planshape for maximum board to water contact for planing.
I like your idea of using recessed ply in the stand-up version. I think thats a great idea.
Consider it stolen !!! ** :-)**
How about the rocker, a bit of nose kick and flat from there back ?
The struts I’m using are designed to be as neutral as possible so as not to influence the feedback from testing different foil shapes, but I reckon the struts could certainly be raked back or reverse canted to add variation.
But its the foil design that has me captivated, I suppose its wide open for speculation and testing but if a small submerged foil can provide lift, speed and control and (sort of) do the same as a whole standard surfboard design, then thats a real area for exploration.
Consider the advances since foils were accepted by sailors.
Indeed, its a different world to what I usually make, I’m frozen from making a normal board because of what is possible in such a smaller , cheaper package by using foils. I can keep the same board and struts and just whip up a new foil and Ive got a totally different ‘board’ to ride.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wObflyTPLvM
somewhad off topic but intriguing none the less
maybe wiyh a kelp cutter for the ranch
the intoxication with the hydrofoil is truly justfied.
in the words of the prophet
‘‘Nifty’’
…ambrose…
me daddy 8 to the bar
If you have foils you can cut the weight down on the hull.
just keep it movin or else…
WHOA! You’ve been holding out on us. I had no idea you were so far along on your R&D.
So this was the first setup where I foiled all the strut edges and the foil itself, even recessed the strut footings into the foil to enhance the lift and reduce drag.
And I went with 3 struts.The foil is 222 square inches.
The control is better because it feels like I have better balance fore and aft as well as laterally. Its the best shape so far but flat foils dont “capture” the flow. It feels like its a slave to the flow rather than mastering it.
It is good and fast but its a bit like riding a longboard without a fin so I think some sort of 3 dimensional foil will greatly improve the performance so I worked on some shapes with depth to try to control the upward flow within the wave and turn it into even more lift and drive.
Something like the above, where there are vertical surfaces to direct the rising water up and under the horizontal lifting area. But keeping the overall volume and surface area as small as possible.
So I did.
3 inch Aluminium struts, 10 in foil depth. 6 in chord. Total area 190 sq in. The foils are slices of plastic pipe and heat-formed in the BBQ.
Theres a lot of home grown theory about angles and deflection but I wont bore you with all that. But its a big step forward. The initial lift is smooth but it really comes into play when the wave steepens.
Back in the tube it feels like there is way too much vertical area so Im doing a shallower version and also one that has some ‘rake’ like this (below) that I can try in both directions to possibly enhance it even further.
Hi Brett -
What do you think of something like this? I was wondering if the struts couldn’t be incorproated in to the overall design as foils themselves? A single concave lifting foil might be cleaner in regards to water flow? I quickly sketched this but I’m spastic when it comes to mouse drawings.
Hi John, your drawings are clear enough, maybe Ive gone too far with the idea and a simpler shape like your concave might be better. I think any curve will work better than a flat foil because it will provide lift over a range of angles whereas the flat foil loses lift quickly if its not at the perfect angle.
I did try a range of concave foils earlier and I liked the hold. I’ll find a pic and add it to this post.
EDIT: Here we go…
Subtle single concave.
2nd and 4th concave foils.
Angled tail concave.
Big rolled concave.
Double rolled concaves.
I remember that when I used a single concave that it had good lift until it turned/tilted, because as the board turns the weight of the rider is on the inside of the turn (and on the tip of the foil) and the board lost lift quite quickly because the single concave has sides that are angled down and they give less lift when tilted even further.
Concaves on a surfboard would be totally different because of the bouyancy involved. I cant guarantee that my explanations are complete and scientifically correct, its just what I think is happening.
I remember the single concave board was good for flowing turns but not for ‘rail’ turns. The single concave was great on steep faces too.
I dont show the latest prototype because its fun to be the first to ride something original ( as far as I know ) and it gives me a bit of room to think about the design and consider the next step.
I dont think any of my foils will culminate into an FCS deal or anything to do with surfing but there are a few people who have contacted me for more info and they might come out with their own version of foils for their own sport.
Maybe MATTEL will come out with a Laird foil-toy that kids can throw into the shorey ?
Or someone might offer a new range of foils for the water skiing crew.
Well it had to happen eventually, my nephew stood up on this board.
First being towed behind a boat where he could stay above the water for hundreds of metres just cruising back and forth and doing little carves off the boat wash and then on a few smallish waves at Burleigh. Like all kids on the Gold Coast hes a good surfer and he didnt find it too hard.
Now thats done, I think I will try to make one I can stand up on and get a few pics and video just to prove it really does happen.
This is fricken awesome. You are the man, no, really, you are.
I used to be 'the man',
about 30 years ago...
Its not hard to get a foil to work, try anything about 200 sq in, mount it more than 6 inches and parrallel under any board and go foiling !
The hardest thing was overcoming the belief that it
wouldnt
couldnt
shouldnt
work, and that I needed to be Laird to get it to work properly.
In the end it was really simple.
When we took the kids out on the river to waterski they all jumped on the different prone foil boards and figured out how to get it to fly straight away.Thats when the 7 y.o. nephew stood up, leaned back and it lifted him clear of the water. In the boat we all hooted wildly as only proud relatives do .
Theres room to refine it for different styles or waves so I'll do that and post some action pics along the way.
Alrighty then, heres the best I can get it in ‘prone-mode’, easy lift, stable in pitch, turns like a standard bodyboard. No problems paddling.
Predictable ride but altogether different, yet successful in most waves except the hollowest.
I’ve tried mounting it on a standup surfboard but foam isnt a great platform, it’ll have to be a purpose built board. Stay tuned.
Twin aluminium struts, carbon/ply/6oz/epoxy resin foil.
Great reference material Max, what ive found is much as you’ve said… Taper the nose for softer turns and square the tail for snap out of turns, much like established surfcraft outline design. Its all the same whether its above or below the water.
I’m still looking to make a better foil setup, anyone got any ideas …?
....how big [length , width , thick] was that board [that your 7 year old nephew stood up on ] ?
" I've tried mounting it on a standup surfboard but foam isnt a great platform, it'll have to be a purpose built board.
Stay tuned..... "
So....
....what are you working on now / next , brett ?
cheers !
ben
The board is 42 in long but it’s the hydrofoil in the pic that he’s actually ‘riding’.
Riding foils is easy on waves where the face isn’t too steep, but in the tube the flow is coming directly up under the foil and a flat foil needs to be smaller or change shape to deal with the change in flow and forces in the tube. That’s what I’m looking at making now.
I’ll get some photos and post.
This is the foil I ride at the moment…
24 in long X 8 in wide
Carbon and 4 oz over 3 ply.
Alunimium struts… 11 in long X 3 in wide X 4 mm thick.
Flat ply 5 mm thick, basic edge foiling, no AOA ( parrallel to hull)
Area of 246 sq in is fine for small beack breaks, easy lifting of my 80 kgs.
But its flat shape isnt capable of tuberiding because I followed the established 2 dimensional foil shape from boating.
A flat foil is great for lift on flat water or out on the shoulder of surf waves but its not versatile enough for tubes and the rider needs to be closer to the water.
So the plan is to make a foil thats 3 dimensional like this…
something that changes its interface with the power of the wave to stay in control.