Thanks guys for your posts, I was interested as its one of those things that is taken as gospel.
I can find theories offered as to how, why and where it works but I cant find any photos or evidence that it exists at all.
Brett.
You can make two surfboards identical except for the rails, one curved and one blocked!
I just calculated that I’ve shaped over 85 miles of rails (40,000 boards x 6’ (x2=12’)=480,000’ divided by 5600’=85-ish miles), and I’ll tell you what I think…its all about the the outside rail not catching!
Sure, there are other factors: plan shape, rail rocker, bottom contour, and so on, but, basically a nice neutral 80/20 rail with a clean release edge from the fins on back and that’s about it. Its what shape is best for the unloaded rail, the one that needs to stay free…
now Allan if your 50 years old my math says you were shaping 800 boards a year from the moment you were born! you did mean sanding computer shapes? But out of that big number how many were hand shaped from start to finish?now if you started at 20 years old that would put you at about 1,300 boards a year a huge amount 3 to 4 boards a day.for reference only how many ghost sanders/ shapers were doing the same think as you on the average?I agree with you that a board is a complete product and there is a collective consciousness that has lead all shapers to arrive at similar ideas.the author of this post has taken aeronautical premises and attempted to apply them to surfboards,which are governed by the same physical laws ,air and ocean dynamics have similar starting points.But even the big budget boys of aircraft have never produced exactly, though similar craft either out of egos or the need for difference, application being a given.That being said surfboards have taken the same road and the search is nothing more than that, the Grail is a elusive dream and it has many incarnations, not to hijack this post, show more of your boards and ideas they are interesting… Aloha…
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now Allan if your 50 years old my math says you were shaping 800 boards a year from the moment you were born! you did mean sanding computer shapes? But out of that big number how many were hand shaped from start to finish?now if you started at 20 years old that would put you at about 1,300 boards a year a huge amount 3 to 4 boards a day.for reference only how many ghost sanders/ shapers were doing the same think as you on the average?I agree with you that a board is a complete product and there is a collective consciousness that has lead all shapers to arrive at similar ideas.the author of this post has taken aeronautical premises and attempted to apply them to surfboards,which are governed by the same physical laws ,air and ocean dynamics have similar starting points.But even the big budget boys of aircraft have never produced exactly, though similar craft either out of egos or the need for difference, application being a given.That being said surfboards have taken the same road and the search is nothing more than that, the Grail is a elusive dream and it has many incarnations, not to hijack this post, show more of your boards and ideas they are interesting… Aloha…
I wasn’t bragging, its just a fact, and out of that is another fact that its less about some sort of holy grail than a path of least resistance.
Pre-computer days I did about 1400/1500 a year, for 6 or 7 years. Post computer ('91- on) about 2000 a year…
I’m not quite 50 yet, give me a few years! (I started young- 13-14 years old):
back on the old sways i posted stuff about edges on rail. i made several boards with a hard edge all the way to the nose. they did not catch. its 8 years or more since i made them. i will do a couple more soon and relive some of that theory. im pretty sure they were vee/flat/vee bottom boards. im pretty sure a couple of old sways poster from europe joined in and made some boards with hard edges too. my clients were sure they were going to catch so i would give them 100% remake garuantee. i didnt keep going with them at the time because it was such an effort trying to convince people that they wouldnt catch.
over the next few weeks i will find a guinee pig to try several rail shapes on one board design from my aps3000.(most of my riders have major contest commitments at moment so no out there trials for them) keep this thread rolling i think we have a lot to learn here, cheers Dave
check this out:
http://forum.surfermag.com/…rch=true#Post1230561 It’s on here somewhere too. Hey sak, what’s the fin toe-in and measured from tail? Like 1/8", 5.5 and 12.5?
what a great question! But before you talk about rail shape…what about the edge in the tail,or in the Twin Fin era,the hard edge was from nose to tail,the importance of the edge under the rail is I think more important than the actual rail shape,many many moons ago in a small french factory I questioned the role of the edge under the rail by making a bd with hard rails nose to tail surfed it,then sanded them off! result was the bd turned into a sloth,no reaction to pumping thumping or just plain jumping…guys if you have a bd you know well sand off the edges in the tail and see if you get same result.Edges dispurse the water from the rail.Watching from the top of big waves on a ski as rcj does his bottom turn( 20’ wave) the rail actually never buries you can see the water dispursing fromwhere his front footstrap back to the tail! I would like to go into a proper test tank to scientifically prove or disprove theory’s…this is the only way to get a theory confirmed!
I think the thickness/shape of rail actually detirmines the shape of the deck,as you don’t bury the rail at speed! eg…tall skinnier guys like thinner rails-or is it a more domed deck,that helps increase leverage in turns…with the chunky monkeys,we like thick rails as we have a lower centre of gravity,and need a flat deck under our feet to for grip and more power…just food for thought…the journey intensifies!!!