I was just thinking, while watching a gloss coat cure, that it seems there are very few “good” surfers that shape. I wonder why that is. I would think that someone who surfs “good”, would inherently have one foot in the door before they even start, yet it seems rare…You have Pat Curren, Matt Kechele(sp?), Richard Kenvin, Skip Frye, and the like, but given all the “pro” shapers, it seems few and far between. Seems like the local backyard shapers are more in tune with what they’re shaping for their local breaks. Your thoughts? For instance, I consider myself a “better than average” longboarder (in the noseridring/classic sense), and I feel that I can shape a competent noserider board for ME. That is not to say that I can (Or even WANT to) shape a modern potatoe chip thruster, but I feel like I “know” what will work and what won’t. Ok, enough Blabber (could be the beer)…What do you guys think?
I think is the beer plus the resin fumes…
It’s all about been a swaylocker. you read a lot about surfboard design, and if you are a surfer, you pay attention to your (or someone elses) board’s behavior, identify what works and what doesn’t. Obviusly you are able to mentally design a board that will work in a given kind of break/wave. Jack…
gerry lopez, bushman, carper, tanaka, aipa, pyzel, vicente, bradshaw, dan moore, doerner,hamilton, all expert surfers who make boards. Probably many more examples but I don’t get out much.
Dylan Longbottom is another performer who shapes well/ professionally. Probably still surfs to a ‘pro’ sort of a standard.
George and Keone Downing, Dennis Pang, these guys rip huge surf
I can understand where Tenover is coming from. I think back to the 60’s, 70’s, and early 80’s. Allot of the top Australian surfers shaped their own boards. Midget, Nat, Bobby Brown, Gary Birdstall, Mick Dooley, Dillon, MP, Terry Fitz, Ted Spencer, Wayne Lynch, Simon Anderson. These are a few that come to mind.
How many of today’s top surfers shape their own boards. I can’t think of any. I guess the demands placed on pro surfers today don’t allow them time to shape their own boards. You would think the knowledge gained from years of surfing hundreds of different shapes would stand them in a good position to become a top shaper. Can’t think of any straight away.
I’ve been surfing for 40 years now and consider myself, like Tenover to be pretty good at riding older style longboards. I don’t consider myself to be a good shaper at all. I’ve shaped a small number of boards. Most of them over 30 years ago. I recently shaped a 10’ balsa old school board to my own design. With the knowledge gained from riding these boards and restoring them I knew what I wanted and what worked. So I shaped one glassed it and rode it for the first time last weekend. It is early days as far as getting use to it but it does everything I wanted it to when I deigned it. It has got me thinking about shaping the same board out of foam. platty.
I fogot to add McTavish to that top group.
An anecdote:
A surfer who’s three times Spanish Surfing Champion and who’s one of the best European competition surfers is a friend of mine. If you ask him about his everyday board, all he can say is: “it’s a 6’2’'… ehhh, i don’t know more numbers… it goes OK.”. And this happens with all his boards.
The amazing thing is that this happens to a lot of good surfers. They just know if the board works or doesn’t work for them, and that’s all.
It’s amazing for me, since i’m an average surfer and i can feel the differences.
I was thinking on this issue a couple of days ago, but from another angle …that being, I suck at shaping and glassing. I love riding the designs I make…
…but part of me wonders if my shaping incompetency is actually holding my surfing back at times…
ben
I think Wayne Deane rode to an amateur world title on his own longboards. Still shaping full time and is a standout performer when the gold coast points are cracking.
I can understand where Tenover is coming from. I think back to the 60’s, 70’s, and early 80’s. Allot of the top Australian surfers shaped their own boards. Midget, Nat, Bobby Brown, Gary Birdsall, Mick Dooley, Dillon, MP, Terry Fitz, Ted Spencer, Wayne Lynch, Simon Anderson. These are a few that come to mind.
I fogot to add McTavish to that top group.
Dominic Wybrow, Stuart Cadden , Jim Banks, Thornton Fallander,Mark Rabbidge , Peter Townend, Gerry Lopez, Larry Bertlemann , Ben Aipa, Reno Abellira,Greg Loehr, Ricky Rasmussen, Paul Neilson… and didn’t Randy Rarick and also Peter Drouyn give shaping a crack for a while too ?
Also Robert August, Phil Edwards, Nat Young, Greg Noll, Joel Tudor,
Peter Mel, Mike Hynson, Ken Bradshaw
… and Tom Blake.
ive yet to see a kook , shape repeatedly good boards for professional level surfers …
theres no way you can undertsand the nuances and intricacies of design relating to high performance surfing unless your capable (or at least once were ) of ripping …
that splits the difference between board builders and board designers …
as far as pros who shape , thats becoming increasingly difficult …
the pros finish up in december and then are back on planes by the end of feb , for 10 months there living out of suit cases not many chances to get some shaping done …
ive even heard complaints from some guys , that 2 months break isnt even long enough to try new stuff and develop some new designs to take on tour , so its same old same old in the board department , go with something you know and trust …
agreeing with tenover …
if you want to design a good specific board , like big guns , small wave grovelers , performance shortboards , good nose riding longboards or performance longboards ,you have to surf those boards your self to have a real appreciation of what needs to be designed in , to get the best out of those boards …
i agree with chip to …
bad shapes will hold your surfing back …
when i was in my mid teens i rode other guys boards and surfed quite well , then i started riding my own boards in my late teens , i knew other guys my age who also shaped but when they competed they rode other guys shapes , but i rode my own …
i used to think to myself "well obviously they dont have much confidence in there own shapes "…
i look back now and realise that was a good move on there part …
my own competitive surfing suffered because i rode my own shapes , it wasnt till my late 20s that as my boards started to get more refined it reflected in contest results …
overall being a good surfer helps you to deliver consistently better boards , ive found that average surfers who are shapers tend to stray to far into the pig zone when new trends and fashions spring up …
over the years various designs have popped up and were hailed as the latest and greatest , you take one look and say what a joke and just keep building the boards you know work , but the shapers who dont surf good enough to know the difference between good and bad , jump on the bandwagon …
a year or 2 later customer feedback and there own boards make them realise maybe it wasnt such a good idea … but by then its to late coz youve dumped however many bad boards into the market place , those boards keep doing the rounds and haunting you …
the more good boards and less bad boards floating around the better reputation youll end up developing …
i actually worked under alias’s for the first 10 years of my shaping carreer id probably done 2500 before i felt confident to put my real name on a board …
i figured that way i wouldnt have bad boards around tarnishing my reputation …
i did that because when i looked at other shapers who were reknown for being the best in the business , there would always be somebody that could find fault with there work and say look at this pig he shaped 15 years back , see he wasnt so good …
it dawned on me even as a teenager that every board you put your name on will give people the ability to judge your skills as a shaper , even if you were only learning …
i dont believe shaping lots and lots of boards makes you a better shaper …
ive often heard the comment that a shapers apprenticeship is 1000 boards…
1000 customs for 1000 individual surfers yes , but not just shaping 1000 pop outs in a factory that just sit in a rack …
a while back i used to work with a guy who started his own label but for the first 100 or so boards they were just for himself and close friends …
this guy had a serious handle on design even after just 100 boards he had so much figured out , there were other guys his age who had shaped over 1000 production boards but didnt have half the board design knowledge of this guy …
as his shapes got better so did his surfing , so theres a definate link there as i had experienced the same thing …
good shapes will make you surf better , good surfing will make your shapes better …
they progress together …
thats why progress in design happens with smaller producers , who have time to go surfing , there not tied to there productions …
in years past surfing wasnt really a profession , in the 70s you basically had traveling surfers , some who shaped there own boards and did a few contests here and there …
as surfing became more of a profession it gave less time for shaping …
i remember as a kid wanting to be a professional surfer , but never being what youd call a natural surfer , i had to make a decision to either put more effort into surfing or into shaping as a career ,i figured my surfing wasnt going to pay the bills , so shaping it was …maybe i should have listened to good advice and not rode my own boards ???
unless something really changes things , i think you will see less and less competitive top surfers who shape boards …
ive known pros who have basically launched a shaping career after surfing and stepped into a career that was really established by there ability as a surfer , but while they were doing the tour really didnt have the time to shape boards …
but yea at the end of all that …the better you can surf , the better chance you have of making good boards …
regards
BERT
…or, it’s sad when you feel like you can surf pretty well, know what you need or want in a board, but don’t have the technical / mechanical skills , eye / hand co-ordination / depth perception / good sawing , glassing or finishing skills [ or whatever other ‘aptitudes’ that are needed ] to get from point A to point B.
…Can anyone relate ?
yep , i can relate exactly …
thats what determined the time i started putting my own name on my shapes …
when the board comes out exactly the same as the picture in your head and actually surfs real well to …
regards
BERT
I agree with tenover ive never rode a shortboard in my life only longboards and competed since i was 12 so when it comes to longboards i really nose what works and what dosent but when it comes to chips i dont even know what they are susposed to look like in the end so i try to stay away from them.
Hey Ben, mate!, that’s why we’re here in Swaylocks, to learn, and to keep making our boards, every day a little better.
As with surfing, hours in the shape room must give you better skills if you put the love this art deserve. Maybe we’ll never become world class shapers, but, we’ll become better shapers than the one we were few years back.
I must say i really agree with what Bert’s said.
Now a days we live in a world of “specialization” and if you want to be the surfing world champion, you can’t be a profesional football player or a world class shaper… you need to be focused on what you want because you won’t do it if you’re half focused. You need 25 hours a day 9 days a week to be there…
What a hard world we created.
maybe I need to not kick myself in the bum so hard just because board 16 doesn’t come out looking like shwuz’s 2nd board, or shipmans first bonzer blank…
Nah, maybe I need to have fun …and need some waves to test out the stubbie fish and whatever the heck the pineapple board is !
…summer in perth…I’m climbing the walls here , people !
ben
after / if the mal is done, if I don’t have a rest for a while and just concentrate on fins, I MAY actually buy a blank [minimise shaping !] for my 'next ’ board…
I can personally relate to this.
While on Reunion there was a couple of local guys who made some boards.
After I arrived, the guy I worked for, who surfed really well for his age, had more time to concentrate on shaping, and his boards, and his surfing, improved.
One of the local guys was so keen, he loved it, loved discussing design, and was trying to make the best quality he could. And he made reasonably good boards.
However, he didn’t surf that well, and with too much quality competition, he recognised his limits and stopped making boards.
Another guy, in the three years I was there, I never saw him go in the water or catch a wave, not one single time! Yet he would talk design like a pro, put our product down, and actually made pieces of crap.
Chips boards look better, design and shape wise at least, no offence on your glassing chip. Actually this guys boards commonly broke and fell apart, so your glassing , chip, is probably better.
We could not understand how this guy had any credibilty, but the bottom line was that he was a good salesman.
He would not survive in Australia, or the US for that matter. Law of nature.
Pro surfers become pro surfers because that’s what they want to be. If they want to be pro shapers, that’s a different story. It’s all up to the individual.
The list of shaper surfers who rip is endless.
Just thought I’d better add this…
There were also surfing coaches, qualified through a government system, who couldn’t surf!!!
Would you get piano lesson from someone who couldn’t play the piano???
Perhaps even more interesting would be exceptions to the rule… really good shapers who don’t surf, or never have?