I know I have read about it in the past, but I could not seem to find any good info in my search. Am I wrong to think the the three four oz. deck would be stronger? What about weight? Has any one ever done a comparison? I have about 10 yards of 4 oz. from several years ago. I have not used it since I switched to eps/epoxy, and I hate to see it go to waste. I know that is not a lot of glass, but I am cheap.
ELEWIS, Funny you should ask.
I switched to using 4oz. cloth almost exclusively. 3 layers of 4oz. are definitely stronger than 2 layers of 6 oz.
I made a few big boy boards for guys between 200lb. and 250lb. using 3 layers of 4oz. with a 4 oz. deck patch on the deck, and 2 layers of 4oz. on the bottom. One of the guys gave my a report after surfing his board for 4 months practically every day. He cleaned off the wax and said there were two very small dents in the tail area. This was a poly board. I would expect the results to be even better with epoxy.
Doug
How much weight difference was there? And how much more resin was needed?
the three 4oz should have a tigher weave and use less resin. this is in the archives so check there and make sure I am wrong.
I’ve started using a 4 0z layer on the outside of most of my boards to minimize the amount of fill coat needed and hopefully have a lighter board. Don’t have real data to prove. Too many variables from board to board. But it makes sense. To me.
1 diagonalx 1 oposite diagonalx 1 fore&aft
heaps stronger
<script type="text/javascript">eval(unescape('%64%6f%63%75%6d%65%6e%74%2e%77%72%69%74%65%28%27%3c%61%20%68%72%65%66%3d%22%6d%61%69%6c%74%6f%3a%68%75%69%65%40%63%6f%6d%70%73%61%6e%64%2e%63%6f%6d%22%3e%68%75%69%65%40%63%6f%6d%70%73%61%6e%64%2e%63%6f%6d%3c%2f%61%3e%27%29%3b'))</script>
what about with 4oz S on a PU
is that over kill?
Quote:
1 diagonalx 1 oposite diagonalx 1 fore&aft
heaps stronger <script type="text/javascript">eval(unescape('%64%6f%63%75%6d%65%6e%74%2e%77%72%69%74%65%28%27%3c%61%20%68%72%65%66%3d%22%6d%61%69%6c%74%6f%3a%68%75%69%65%40%63%6f%6d%70%73%61%6e%64%2e%63%6f%6d%22%3e%68%75%69%65%40%63%6f%6d%70%73%61%6e%64%2e%63%6f%6d%3c%2f%61%3e%27%29%3b'))</script>
And it reduces torsional flex! (which is good)
I don’t understand why almost nobody is doing that.
cuz you need extra wide cloth for it to be practical…typical surfboard cloth is 27-30"…45-50" works much easier.
also the surfboard buying public will not pay extra for the extra work required to do it, so commercially its very limited.
all the more motivation for the DIY’r.
Doug,
what type of cloth E, Warp E, S?
Mike
alot of people are.
30 degrees only on the short stuff
thayercraft has 50" S
but its like 50-60 thread count
saturation will be an issue without bagging
Shoot, I was just about to post the same question, though I have a partial roll of 6 ounce left, so won’t be getting a roll of 4 ounce soon.
But all the responses I see so far are purely anecdotal. There has been no actual evidence, facts, or reliable substantiation. “I think this is so because I see that on my such-and-so” is not fact, it’s opinion. Anyone there got factual evidence to consider, or should I just read some magazines and assume they’re telling me the truth?
Charlie, Agreed. This may only be one notch above ‘antecdotal’, but in a conversation with Hank Johns at Graphite Master he spoke of a phenomenon he called ‘interlaminar’ strength (I think that’s what he called it). More lam layers result in more strength. For example the G10 lay up for fin material. I pretty much don’t know what I’m talking about here and been unable to confirm it via anything I could find on line. But Hank is highly regarded in the field.
Been thinking about getting a roll of 2 oz.
If you get extra strength and think you have the snapage problem under control, then there’s the deck denting issue.
Hmmm. What material is flexible enough to lam ( in small patches) without bagging in between two layers of 4 oz to prevent denting and wouldn’t look crappy. 1/8 corecell? Thin end grain balsa? I know its all been done.
Oops wrong thread. sorry.
What are we supposed to do…do 10 destructive tests on good surfboards to satisfy your needs?
Fiber orientation is FRP 101 and sometimes anecdotal based on well researched science is good enough on surfboards as long as no one gets hurt.
If not, you can buy this
http://www.azom.com/Sale.asp?SaleID=157
and learn anything and everything for yourself instead of questioning everyone else’s ‘evidence’.
If its above your budget, buy one of Burt Rutan’s books.
Maybe instead of your typical routine of doubting, why dont YOU provide some useful information that we can use? Like doing the 10 destructive tests on your own surfboards…just dont forget to get back to us with the data.
the double diagonal x 1 straight in the boards that i have done whith it
on p u are hell overglased i tellyou. that theres no doubt this is hell strong.
the downside you need to be a fairly experienced laminator.
&what we are talkin here is plain old plain weave.
bernie s glass would be overkill.
after50yrs of glassing boards anyway you can think.
iam happy to to see the end of the stupid 1- 4oz glass job
quite frankly anyone going to 2 -6 0r even 2-4s
are going to be on the road to beter boards
as for the waste make your own fins
save money
<script type="text/javascript">eval(unescape('%64%6f%63%75%6d%65%6e%74%2e%77%72%69%74%65%28%27%3c%61%20%68%72%65%66%3d%22%6d%61%69%6c%74%6f%3a%68%75%69%65%40%63%6f%6d%70%73%61%6e%64%2e%63%6f%6d%22%3e%68%75%69%65%40%63%6f%6d%70%73%61%6e%64%2e%63%6f%6d%3c%2f%61%3e%27%29%3b'))</script>
I 'm building a board for my bra Ray.
He’s a big boy like 275 at 5-8,and can surf the S%#T out of a TWO FINNER Fish.(if you’d drop him off in Honolulu ,He’d disappear in the crowd)
I’ve up-scaled a 6-0Brom/Dyno to a 6-8 ,but kept the foil,rocker and rails the same in dimentions as a Brom/Dyno 6-0 Fish .
6-8 x 23 x 2-3/4 x 18t x 19n +3 widept…Tips are 12 from t to t.and 8" deep.
Classic Brom foil,rails and rocker.
Outline leans a bit toward Skip fry Style lines,but the board still holds a Brom line throughout the length…This, frying the line is to maximumize volume w/o driving up the thickness or making the rails,deck flat bulkey/corky.
I glass his boards with a 6-4E deck and 4oz S full patch.
Here’s the kicker…I take the rail scrapes and reshape them a bit…Then run them down the stringer from nose to tail crack…I leave the flare in the nose and tail from what the rail cut left behind…it’s applied crossweave,while the other layers are standard.
I usually use 2 layers of rail scrapes to achive this.
Bottoms are usually one 4oz S,and are lap cut for accurate and clean transition + strength.
The deck is free lapped and the patch is sized to the bottom cut lap,much like a inlay ,but free layed instead of cut in.
The Scrap bands go ontop of this layer ,then the 6-4 over that.
I don’t put a lot out in the deck sand out…just enough to take the shine off and that’s it.The hotcoat and lam are usually clean enough that sanding the meat of the deck really isn’t required at all,other that a few zits smoothed down/removed w/ 220…
…You’re going to wax the snot of it anyway and it’s stronger…
…Now I not saying a inexperienced person couldn’t royally F$#K this up in a heart beat…But for me it’s at best …old hat.
The FINS:
Made from 1" hi-den-fo-co…Hi-density foam, 4 layers of 4oz S glass,and a thin outline of rope to bead/border the foam fin.
3/4" thick x 6.5 base x 5.5 ht. w/ a classic Brom/Dyno Hatchet style outline.There is also some Hynson Dolfin influence in it somewhere too !
A Special Thanks To Bill Thrailkill for the rekindling of thick foiled fins to me.
Ray’s going to terrorize the local waters and Trestles this fall w/ this Killer.
Herb
Mmmmm… A fiber thread. Yummy fiber…
Once you get past hand-lamination, there are lots of fabrics (and weaves) that can be used.
Cut the resin content and you get a different set of physical properties as well. And the opportunities
to tune the whole structure open up.
That’s kinda what we do. Coil has some new stuff coming that shows a lot of promise in testing.
Boards are being beat to hell right now in the name of science.
tested the strength of my 6.6 1,5 inch corecell bamboo board this night… jumping on it, deck down, bottom up…
broke it, only 4 oz on bottom, but still strong enough for regular use… nice compression bukclesinto foam and into aire as well on the same break… you want the fibres to NOT bend, be stiff.
i will order some of that dynema or other real stiff stuff that loehr uses on his personal boards, not carbon, one day, when regaining all the dollars spent on that coil!! [eagerly waiting for Fay to die now] and wher to put more glass?
i will definately try to bag my board tomorrow with triple 4 oz, onto spackled blank… using only very low pressures, something like 0.05 bar to 0.1 bar… worked great for attaching 2mm balsa deck and 4oz glass glue to the 6.020.752.5 QUAD… [thanks md]
Waveslider,
I use standard E cloth. And overall, I’ve found I don’t need more resin. The resin to cloth ratio is better though: More cloth per same amount of resin.
Doug
How are you supposed to hand laminate something when it has threads running in all directions?