timber flex build issues

Yeah, I got issues…again…

I was bagging my deck veneer last night and the vac wouldn’t pull.  Panic. Cussing. Nervous sweat. Finally I found the problem- I had clamped right at the end of the bag and there were some holes.  So I moved the clamp and pulled vac…in time…so I thought (I’m using Kwik Kick).

Well, I pull the board out of the bag and I find I have a few “bubbles.”  Three actually.  Notably, one is next to where I did a inlay/intaglio logo and the other two are on or near the edges of my cross wise veneer deck patches which were vacced onto 2 oz inner glass the day before.

 

Anybody have any ideas about fixing the bubbles?  Can I drill a little hole on each end and syringe resin in one end and put vacuum on the other to get resin under the skin and then tape a little vac bag in that area and suck it down?  Anybody ever try something like that? Or should I just cut out the whole area and patch?  

 

Anybody had similar issues?  What was your fix?

 

I’ll try to load photos this PM if it helps…

Hi Llilibel, Really liked the Squid board. Nice figureing on the veneer. I don't have vac bag experience but have worked with veneers. You might be able to employ a clamping system right on spot after getting epoxy under the bubbles. If the bubble is on a radial surface, you can shape the clamping block to it and apply pressure slowly taking the bubble down. You may have to make a very slight cut or slit in the wood to gain some flexibility. If so, use an Exacto knife or razor blade to keep it small. This is just one way of dealing with veneers in furniture maybe it will work here. Good Luck.

your friendly local dentist or oral surgery place has the syringes with the curved spout.  That's where I've seen them, have one or two lying around from my kids having their wisdom teeth out.  Handy to have.

Thanks tblank.  How would you suggest getting the epoxy under the skin?

aloha Jeff!

its been a while  but from what i remember from Eva’s site

that’s how you do it

you need some bagging tape/putty (windshield stuff) and just bag the patched area after drilling a hole and injecting some resin underneath, i’d use some perforated peel ply if you have some to prevent resin puddles in top

if you need some i can send you some perfed peel ply i got from ACP

 

Hi Llilibel, woodworker supply's like: woodcraft, rockler, and others sell glue injectors much like a hype needle. If you have a feed and grain supply near you they will sell in the equestrian section actual hypodermic needles for a Vet's use. Either one will work. Maybe a little heat (test a scrap piece first) on the veneer will help loosen it up. Good Luck.

Hi Jeff -

A tiny razor slit along the grain with masking tape on either side will be enough to shoot resin in there and will be undetectable.  WEST Epoxy distributors sell the curved taper tip syringes for injecting resin.  If you know someone in health care it's easy to source expired or clean used syringes and needles.  Tiny needles generally are hard to shoot resin through.

To compress the bubble just lay wax paper over the injected area, place a small block of wood and tape or strap it down.  I've used rack straps wrapped around the board.

 

Jeff,

 

When I get those I do what John mentioned.  I cut the skin to the foam, Then pour in epoxy, then I cover with wide 2" quality 3M masking tape. Then I either shove it back into the bag, or I make a small ding repair vac section (like you mentioned)

It ususally pulls it down pretty good, then I sand down the rough spot. Once it's covered with glass and hotcoated it disapears.  Doing the patch is pretty extreme and will be a glaring damaged spot.  if you get a sand through, then you can can match the wood color with acrylic paint on the foam. It really blends in nicely.

 

Don't sweat it, and don't over repair it. and don't over build it.

yo jeff  resinheads  way   good as gold.

 

**   cheers huie
**

Thanks everyone.  That’s why I love this place.

Here’s some photos of my adventures-

Poplar deck patches.  My hickory veneers came wrapped in these- like they were some kind of packaging material.  They were much thinner than the 1/42 veneers.

 

Patches bagged-

Bubbles-

 

Bubble repairs.  Hope they come out OK-

yup

that’s why I don’t like veneering versus using 1/16"-1/9" balsa, pawlownia, cedar or wiliwili you never get wrinkles with that stuff and if the shape is alittle off you can smooth things out with a little fine sanding.

I think if you pre-glass the bottom of the veneer like greg does it might help with the wrinkles but pure 1/42"-1/24" veneer is tough with compound curves especially concaves. you almost need to use a call inside the bag.

 

You want to try some tulip wood veneer?

 

Hey llilibel03

I feel your pain, been in the same situation
with bamboo veneer. Resinhead’s fix is right on. I have some good epoxy
syringes I can send to you, let me know if you need any my friend.

~Brian

Thanks again to everyone.  I found syringes at the local art supply place.  The bubbles flattened out fine.  The creases at the stringer are actually a little harder.  It’s my fault.  The two edges didn’t line up perfectly (hickory is hard as hell to cut with an exacto!) but with a little pull of masking tape I could close up the gap.  I figured the vac would pull down the rest. I guess not.  I’ll be more carefu next time.

 

I think I suffer from a case of beginner’s luck.  My first boards came out so well, with no problems, I was thinking how easy all this is.  But then…well shit happens…

At least it’s one the deck which will be slathered with grungy surf wax…

Hi Llilibel, If you are trying to make a seam joint with two pieces of veneer, then it is easier to overlap the two and cut through both sheets at the same time and discard the cut offs. This is done simply with a rotary cutter like a pizza cutter only these are sharp like a razor blade. Lay the veneer on a hard surface and roll along a straight edge pressing hard enough to cut through both. Craft and sewing stores sell these cutters. Might be of help.

Hey tblank,  I know.  If I wasn’t so lazy, I would have sandwiched the veneers between MDF and cut it on a table saw, but I got lazy.  I guess laziness in the end always means more work.  I  tell my students that all the time, but do I listen to my own advice?

Again, that hickory was hard to cut!

jeff

 

Love the rocker table.

Here's my crazy idea to get ride of the wrinkles...

Cut the board in half lengthwise, add a stringer, and glue it back together again.  I've seen you do more extreme repair work in the past, so I know you are up to the task.  I'm thinking a really fine toothed Japanese style saw would be the ticket for making a clean center cut.  That or a band saw.  A little basting of epoxy over the cut line may help to reduce the risk of chipping the veneer.

Here's an even crazier idea.  Make the stringer a pseudo stringer out of 1/8" poster board cork.  The nice thing about cork is that it will sand easily so you won't have to worry about ripping through the veneer while trying to make it flush with the deck.  I'd do the glue-up with epoxy and just use a vacuum bag to hold it all together until cured.

Nice looking board BTW.  I'm sure you'll find a way to fix it so it looks perfect.

[quote="$1"]

Here's my crazy idea to get ride of the wrinkles...

Cut the board in half lengthwise, add a stringer, and glue it back together again.  I've seen you do more extreme repair work in the past, so I know you are up to the task.  I'm thinking a really fine toothed Japanese style saw would be the ticket for making a clean center cut.  That or a band saw.  A little basting of epoxy over the cut line may help to reduce the risk of chipping the veneer.

Here's an even crazier idea.  Make the stringer a pseudo stringer out of 1/8" poster board cork.  The nice thing about cork is that it will sand easily so you won't have to worry about ripping through the veneer while trying to make it flush with the deck.  I'd do the glue-up with epoxy and just use a vacuum bag to hold it all together until cured.

Nice looking board BTW.  I'm sure you'll find a way to fix it so it looks perfect.

[/quote]

 

Hey swied, I like the idea, but the functionality is poop.  Sometimes the functionality has to out weigh the beauty. if you add a stringer....or more stringers. or more glass, or wood veneer etc, etc, you kill the performance of the surfboard.  Timberflexes are best when the core is light and flexible. The less stringer material the better. Let the skin be the strength to the board.  Adding a stringer is going to turn it into a coffee table.

So although it  will have a few ...let's call them "zit on the princesses face" It will still be a stunning surfboard when finished. And it should be a better performing one too.

On a side note: Dang Jeff, looks good, but you keep working that highly figured wood into the vac bag.  I have the same issues with wood with wavy grain or figured grain. Looks good, but always gives me shits and fits trying to lay it down flat.  Some day try a sheet of good ol Northern White Ash....the same stuff they make Louisville Sluggers out of. Ever tough, very strong.  Straight grain, and no fuss. Or Mahogany?

Hey Resin,

The hickory’s really not that wavy.  The grain goes fairly straight.  It’s just tough stuff.  Reminds me of oak.  Really stringy.  You can tear it with the grain really easy. In fact, I have to be really careful sanding the edges.  I can only sand with the grain on the curves. But even with the veneer thickness, breaking scraps up to put it in the trash you have bend it back and forth over and over agin to rip across the grain.  Reminds me of kevlar…I remember when that stuff failed it still held together.

I almost went with ash.  It is on sale at certainlywood.com, but it was “olive ash” not sure what that is, and it looked really wavey.