I am hoping to be fiberglassing my first surfboard this weekend. I have more hours glassing boats than any human should have under his belt. I am using epoxy and plan on using epoxy tints I already have laying around in my shop. I plan on doing a swirl bottom and rails and in the swirl I want to tape off a pattern to then come back and hit with one or two colors before the epoxy sets. I am thinking about using 3M fineline tape to tape of my pattern and then pull it off of the non soaked glass as I pour in a new color combo.
I am worried that the tape will pull the glass when I try to remove it and create wrinkles. Has anyone done anything like this that can share some experience?
Yep, that’s the tape you want. Do yourself a favor, never buy that tape from West Marine. I buy it from a local auto paint supply for about 1/3rd the price of West.
I am fairly new at all this and I only have experience glassing with PE but I don’t think what you want to do will work. Resin tints and swirls are not done in the way you describe because it will be nearly impossible to pull the tape off once the cloth starts to saturate and the cloth will soak up the epoxy and take on the color, whether its taped or not. What you want to do is either mix all your colors seperately with hardener and then pour the colors into one bucket WITHOUT mixing and then pour that on the board and pull it off the cloth. As you pull the epoxy off with the squegee/spreader you can add different patterns by the motion of your squegee/spreader. You can also mix each color and then pour them onto the board and then mix while on the board, but with epoxy I think it works better if done in one bucket and then poured. You can thin epoxy with a little Xylene to get the colors different densities and to allow the colors to seperate. I have done something similar with PE resin and acetone and styrene.
Apply the tape to a firm surface, sanded to at least 220and you will have a crisp design. Either finish sanded foam to 220, or a finished hotcoated surface.
What fineline are you using, the light grenish, or the flexible blue? If you have it alying around it will work great, but it is expensive for doing large areas. 223, and 3M automotive refinishing tape in the yellow stuff works fantastic too. Just remember if taping over foam to rub the tape into the foam with your hand...almost getting the tape warm to increase the adhesion factor. if on a sanded hotcoat you want tot use the back side of your fingernail, and push the tape flat adhered...to a point where you see the difference in adhesion where you applied presure.
Mako - Thanks, just using West Marines webpage, I actually have plenty of the tape and buy it from 3M Distro.
W1978 - My thought is if I can keep the resin from getting under the tape I will be fine because fiberglass does not absorb, the resins just fills the gaps. my experience with fiberglass, going to try and see. I hope my gamble pays off. If not the swirls will cover it up. Going to go two colors per bucket.
Kensurf - I was thinking about that last night. Will add steps but might be worth the time investment.
Resinhead - it is the light green that you can see through in sunlight, real fine edge but not super sticky and bends really well.
The cloth will definitely soak up the colored resin, trust me on this, I recently had this happen and had to figure out a way to fix it. I was working with PE resin, which is a little thicker than epoxy. My understanding is that epoxy soaks into the cloth alot more than PE. Also, one of the worst things you can do is pull at the cloth once you have soaked it, like you are going to have to do to remove tape. If you try pulling the cloth around after you have poured your resin you are in for a disaster. You want to get your cloth and lam as tight as possible, and that means no disruption and pulling the cloth tight to the foam.
The best way to do what you are describing is exactly what RESINHEAD aluded to, which is to first do your color pattern in resin on the foam WITHOUT ANY CLOTH. Then after the resin has been layed in the pattern you want, then do a clear cloth lam over it. I have done this and it works very well, just make sure your color coat on the foam is fairly level or else its going to screw up your lam and hotcoats.
W1978 & Ken - This is why I posted here, great info. I am worried about the pulling. My tinting of polyester or epoxy has only been to see where I was working and always then painted over unless it was Gel-coat which is a totally different beast.
What I am trying to accomplish is a black, white, blue swirl with stars in green and orange (kids picked this). I wanted to swirl and then paint the stars over top but the kids want the stars to be marbelized and soft blend with the swirls. I thought maybe doing at same time with swirl would give the desired effect but worried about “bleed” under the tape. If I was good with a airbrush it would be simple but my painting skills are painting boats and varnishing (60% of boats I have built or restored are mahogany and the rest glass or aluminum). Put an airbrush in my hand and a mess is sure to follow.
hrmm…still have some game planning to do. Ken’s idea might be the only way.
ARAK 44 This is exactly how I would do the type of job you want step-by-step. First off, any color you lay down first will be your primary color for that spot and will stay there. With the colors you want for the swirl (black, white, blue) I would start with white as the base and then add in the black and blue for the swirl. I would NOT do this type of job in the cloth/glass, its close to impossible. The other thing, if you want to do this in the glass you are going to have to do a cutlap and then cover the lap-line with a pinline, which is a tough job for a first-timer doing a color job.
Do this job on the foam WITHOUT GLASS. I would rough sand the foam and then prep it as usual to get all the dust off. Start the color job on the deck. I would tape off the rails at the midpoint with 3M 233 “green” 2-inch tape. Next mix up a big bucket of your primary color (white), strain it, and set it aside. Next, mix up two smaller buckets of blue and two buckets of black and then strain them both. Add the hardener into the colors and then mix. Pour several thin lines of color and your primary length-wise. Next, add some xylene to the blue and black resin, mix it, and then add it into the white and give it one swirl with a stick (NO MORE). Then pour the white/black/blue bucket and fill in between the lines. Then pull the resin off with your squeegee/spreader and make sure to note the swirl pattern is largely based on the motion of your spreader. Make sure the resin coat is thin and there are no high spots or pools, then just let it kick.
Next, on the now hard surface trace the star patterns that you want to make with a thin marker and then tape these patterns off with 3M 233 ½-inch tape. Make sure to scuff these star patterns up with a 40-80 grit sand paper to get the next coat of epoxy to stick. Next, mix up a bunch of small cups of the resin colors and hardener you want for your stars, pour small amounts into one another, and then pour small amounts into your pre–taped star patterns and spread to the edges. This should create the swirl pattern you want in the stars separate from the pattern on the board. Do the same thing on the bottom of the board, then do a standard glassing with clear epoxy, hotcoat and you are done. Make sure to sand a little with 40-80 grit before doing the glassing so that your next epoxy coat will bind.
After talking with the kids about it last night and explaining the challanges I let them dwell on it. This morning at breakfast they said “lets do the swirl and make a template spraypaint the stars while still swiril is tacky and then cover with epoxy and maybe that will do the trick”. After discussions how the epoxy and spray paint will mix I decided to let them give their idea a shot. We have 4 hours of final shapping to knock out and weather, baseball schedules and sleep overs hopefully we will be able to give it a shot this weekend.
Hey W1978, can you explain the purpose of xylene in your colors??? Are you just thinning them? You’re talking epoxy in this example too right? I’d be interested to hear as this is new to me.
So I don’t work with epoxy, just PE but one thing that was shown in a previous post was that you could get great color seperation and some great swirl patterns by thinning the epoxy with a little xylene. I saw some great pics in a previous post here but couldn’t find it. It also makes alot of sense that by changing the density of the dark colors and pouring it into a NON-thinned light base color you will get interesting patterns as the thin dark color spreads into the thicker light base color.
I have tried something similar with PE resin and thinned my colors with acetone and it worked well. I am going to experiment more on my next board.
So I don’t work with epoxy, just PE but one thing that was shown in a previous post was that you could get great color seperation and some great swirl patterns by thinning the epoxy with a little xylene. I saw some great pics in a previous post here but couldn’t find it. It also makes alot of sense that by changing the density of the dark colors and pouring it into a NON-thinned light base color you will get interesting patterns as the thin dark color spreads into the thicker light base color.
I have tried something similar with PE resin and thinned my colors with acetone and it worked well. I am going to experiment more on my next board.
That makes sense. I just needed some clarification. I may try thinning my darks the next time I do a swirl. A touch of styrene would probably work for PE just like the xylene works for epoxy.
I’ve always wanted to try a tint on the foam as well…lots of things to try.
BLUENOSE I just got some styrene and I am going to try this to thin my PE colors soon. I recently did a color job directly on the foam as a fix to a cutlap that bled and it came out pretty good. I learned alot from that mistake, like buy quality tape. I would be interested in trying out some cobalt also, but that it tough to get these days.
Hey W1978...got any photos? I was warned about people like you years ago.....internet....
"I am fairly new at all this and I only have experience glassing with PE but I don't think what you want to do will work."
You do a 2 page essay on how to do color work with epoxy but you've never done epoxy color work? And you're new at this? How does that work?
Post up some photos and prove me wrong. Photos with epoxy resin and color. Araq44 says he's been glassing boats forever with epoxy. I bet the guy has done some work with tape and pigments. I bet a guy like me could learn alot from a boat builder like Araq44.......
Welcome to Swaylock's....buyer beware...........Stingray.....
...and.....ResinHead is the tape expert. 3M 233 or 233+ will do the trick. The yellow stuff is new to me. The problem with epoxy resin is the slow cure time. That gives the resin more time to eat at the tape.....You paint , you work with poly , you found some cheap off brand tape that will do the trick..... epoxy resin requires quality tape......it's worth it
