I have read the post on the Bing Nuuhiwa Noserider, Con Ugly, and reverse rocker. I have also done my homework on the “winged foil” theory. Now I was hopping you guys could help me with the last couple aspects of making this dream board a reality. This is what I have in mind. Rocker: Reversed with extreme tail flip (5-6 inches) in the last 18" of the board. Rail Config: Hard Downed rails in the nose making a smooth transition across the middle to hard, up-turned rails in tail. Thickness(from center): a little thicker then normal in the nose (but not fat) maybe 2.5", around 3.5" in the middle of the board to allow for noseriding out on the shoulder (I’m just under 190lb), and I figured the usual 2" in the tail should be ok. Bottom & Deck Contours: Nose = Flat bottom with a hint of concave (just enough to offset the slight nose rocker but not effect plaining speed) and domed on the deck. Tail = rolled bottom with medium concave on the deck of the tail over the fin. Outline: Near parallel with the hips of the board near the tail. I got this idea from Tom Wegener’s artical in Pacific Longboarder V4#2. that “Having hips towards the tail is the key to the ultimate noserider. The hips make the board ride more parallel to the wave when you are on the nose…” (This seems like it would work better for noseriding then even the parallel boards like the Model T.) Glassing: Around 20lbs volan. Enough to sustian momentum through irregular sections, but still be managable to swing through pivot style turns and carry on long hikes. Length: Between 9’8 and 9’10. Fin: Glassed on 10.5 DT M.T.P. Obviously, I’ve been thinking about this board for awhile. I am curious to know everyones thought on the setup. Im going into this design, knowing it will be a difficult turning board, but Im looking for a board that can practically surf from the nose, climb on the tip, and hold while hanging 10. Here is what I still need help on. How high are the nose rockers on most of those flat 60’s log? I’m thinking of having the nose rocker only 2". I figure if they could drop in back then with 10’ 30-40lb mal’s, I can pull it off with my modern version with some practice. Also, I know I want to have the fin glassed as far back as practical to help hold the tail down. What do you guys think of 2.5 to 3 inches from the back edge? I greatly appreciate any feedback you guys could give me.
I have read the post on the Bing Nuuhiwa Noserider, Con Ugly, and reverse > rocker. I have also done my homework on the “winged foil” > theory. Now I was hopping you guys could help me with the last couple > aspects of making this dream board a reality.>>> This is what I have in mind. Rocker: Reversed with extreme tail flip (5-6 > inches) in the last 18" of the board.>>> Rail Config: Hard Downed rails in the nose making a smooth transition > across the middle to hard, up-turned rails in tail.>>> Thickness(from center): a little thicker then normal in the nose (but not > fat) maybe 2.5", around 3.5" in the middle of the board to allow > for noseriding out on the shoulder (I’m just under 190lb), and I figured > the usual 2" in the tail should be ok.>>> Bottom & Deck Contours: Nose = Flat bottom with a hint of concave > (just enough to offset the slight nose rocker but not effect plaining > speed) and domed on the deck. Tail = rolled bottom with medium concave on > the deck of the tail over the fin.>>> Outline: Near parallel with the hips of the board near the tail. I got > this idea from Tom Wegener’s artical in Pacific Longboarder V4#2. that > “Having hips towards the tail is the key to the ultimate noserider. > The hips make the board ride more parallel to the wave when you are on the > nose…” (This seems like it would work better for noseriding then > even the parallel boards like the Model T.)>>> Glassing: Around 20lbs volan. Enough to sustian momentum through irregular > sections, but still be managable to swing through pivot style turns and > carry on long hikes.>>> Length: Between 9’8 and 9’10.>>> Fin: Glassed on 10.5 DT M.T.P.>>> Obviously, I’ve been thinking about this board for awhile. I am curious to > know everyones thought on the setup. Im going into this design, knowing it > will be a difficult turning board, but Im looking for a board that can > practically surf from the nose, climb on the tip, and hold while hanging > 10.>>> Here is what I still need help on. How high are the nose rockers on most > of those flat 60’s log? I’m thinking of having the nose rocker only > 2". I figure if they could drop in back then with 10’ 30-40lb mal’s, > I can pull it off with my modern version with some practice.>>> Also, I know I want to have the fin glassed as far back as practical to > help hold the tail down. What do you guys think of 2.5 to 3 inches from > the back edge?>>> I greatly appreciate any feedback you guys could give me. If you don’t mind doing some additional research, you might try to find old issues of Surfer Magazine that contained “Morey-Pope” ads. During the middle and late 1960’s, Morey-Pope brought out several models that were similar to the design characteristics that you have described. The “Snub,” “Blue Machine,” and the “Peck Penetrator” all featured minimal rocker in the nose with lift in the tail. By the way, the forward rails of the nose are down but not hard. You want the forward rail to generate lift, not break away! Take a look at the leading edge of the wing of a small aircraft. Given the sophistication of planshape, rocker, and the rail and bottom contours, I’m not sure any one of these boards could rightly be described as a “log!” Anyway, it should be a fun project . . . and that’s the idea . . . enjoy.
If you don’t mind doing some additional research, you might try to find > old issues of Surfer Magazine that contained “Morey-Pope” ads. > During the middle and late 1960’s, Morey-Pope brought out several models > that were similar to the design characteristics that you have described. > The “Snub,” “Blue Machine,” and the “Peck > Penetrator” all featured minimal rocker in the nose with lift in the > tail. By the way, the forward rails of the nose are down but not hard. You > want the forward rail to generate lift, not break away! Take a look at the > leading edge of the wing of a small aircraft. Given the sophistication of > planshape, rocker, and the rail and bottom contours, I’m not sure any one > of these boards could rightly be described as a “log!” Anyway, > it should be a fun project . . . and that’s the idea . . . enjoy. Thanks Barry, I see what you mean about the nose rails. If you had to guess, how much nose rocker did the Morey-Pope boards have, do you think Im close with 2" to 2.5"? Thanks again, Russ
Russell - I made my own attempt at the ultimate noserider (see board #118) - It definitely noserides, but at a price. Bottom line is that the tail holds in too much when riding the flats around sections and soft shoulders. Based on my experience with these rather extreme design elements, I’m guessing that 5-6" of tail rocker will negatively impact overall riding characteristics. Add a deck concave with that much rocker and it may act like an anchor. A subtle deck concave combined with a wide tail block will probably result in enough downward force on the tail for nose riding… maintaining a more conventional tail rocker will still allow for skating around sections and flat spots. I was also surprised at how little fin was required - maybe the wings played a part in that. I would at least reconsider a box… again, my experience has been that overfinned boards are a drag - literally.
Thanks Barry, I see what you mean about the nose rails. If you had to > guess, how much nose rocker did the Morey-Pope boards have, do you think > Im close with 2" to 2.5"? Thanks again, Russ OK . . . a few more thoughts! That rocker sounds OK but keep in mind that this is bottom curve . . . the forward part of the deck is almost dead flat. Also, this type of nose (wing tip) is a just a bit thicker at the tip. The flatter bottom curve and thicker tip means that there will be more thickness forward in the body of the board. Again, think “wing!” This design is truly a trimming type of nose rider. As mentioned, the kick in the tail does need to be moderate. Too much and it will, indeed, act very effectively to limit the board’s speed. Again, as this is trimming board, it will do well with a lower area fin - and not on very end of the board! A lower area fin will allow the tail to ride lower on the face, allowing the board to assume a more parallel (trimming) attitude across the wave. Another reference: Gordon & Smith also had a model around this time that used the same design ideas. It was designed by Mike Hynson and called “The Stretch.” Mike’s design incorporated a squared off nose. Back in the day, Ricky Ryan used to tear up Newbreak with this model. This design has a whole bunch of things going on with it . . . a real challenge to get all of the elements to blend and work in harmony. If you are not an experienced shaper, I would defer to someone like Jim Phillips to pull it all together for you. Oh, if you send me your e-mail address, I’ll send you a snapshot of “Captain Billy Whizbang” riding a similar design at Swamis.
OK . . . a few more thoughts!>>> That rocker sounds OK but keep in mind that this is bottom curve . . . the > forward part of the deck is almost dead flat. Also, this type of nose > (wing tip) is a just a bit thicker at the tip. The flatter bottom curve > and thicker tip means that there will be more thickness forward in the > body of the board. Again, think “wing!”>>> This design is truly a trimming type of nose rider. As mentioned, the kick > in the tail does need to be moderate. Too much and it will, indeed, act > very effectively to limit the board’s speed. Again, as this is trimming > board, it will do well with a lower area fin - and not on very end of the > board! A lower area fin will allow the tail to ride lower on the face, > allowing the board to assume a more parallel (trimming) attitude across > the wave.>>> Another reference: Gordon & Smith also had a model around this time > that used the same design ideas. It was designed by Mike Hynson and called > “The Stretch.” Mike’s design incorporated a squared off nose. > Back in the day, Ricky Ryan used to tear up Newbreak with this model.>>> This design has a whole bunch of things going on with it . . . a real > challenge to get all of the elements to blend and work in harmony. If you > are not an experienced shaper, I would defer to someone like Jim Phillips > to pull it all together for you.>>> Oh, if you send me your e-mail address, I’ll send you a snapshot of > “Captain Billy Whizbang” riding a similar design at Swamis. Awsome, email is Thanks again to both you and John Mellor for your advice. I think I will go with a reinforced fin box set just a little further back then normal. I can always push it forward if its to stiff. There is no way I’d be able to shape this board. I was going to have it shaped for me. Does Jim Phillips have a web page or shop open to the public? I did not realize that a big fin area would make the board ride high. The MTP has probably the most area of all Fins Unlimited models. Would a 9.5 - 10 Fins Unlimited DT BNR or SNR be a better bet? I am nervous about too small of a fin falling out of steep faces. That has to be the most irksome thing when you finally get your board position just in front of the curl. Also, if 5-6 is too much tail rocker, would you guys go with something around 4-4.5 if you were going to try and make this board? My current board has typical 50/50 tapered rails, gradual 4.5" nose rocker and 4" of tail rocker and there is not enough suction to trim with 10 over, its always quick to drop like the typical modern longboard, even on fast steep sections. Sorry about the bombardment of questions, but I look to spend alot of $$$ on this board, and want to get it right the first time. Thanks, Russ
Russell - although I didn’t take measurements, I just got through looking over a new Bing Lightweight Noserider model. It featured the wide tailblock with a slight concave deck. It also had a pretty big nose concave but not a lot of rocker at either end. The bottom through the tail was bellied and had 50/50 rails. I’d say you’d be on the right track approaching someone like Mike Eaton, Gene Cooper or Donald Takayama if you don’t want to tackle it yourself. You should also keep in mind that no board is going to do it for you. Not even Joel Tudor just walks up to the nose expects to be able to pull it off. There is a subtle technique of placing your board so the wave breaks over the tail and you have enough of a steep face to set your forward rail and trim. When you see a hot noserider backpedaling like mad, he knows he’s moving out of position and compensates before disaster strikes. Finding that spot and holding it takes the right board, the right wave, and a fair amount of skill on the part of the rider.
one thing russell. unless you’re a big guy, i would go for a 9’4" or 9’6". i’ve just found they are a little easier to get into that position for long noserides. keep in mind though, with all the design principles, wave selection and what the wave is doing is more of the challenge. with the right wave, an eight foot board could noseride, just keep that in mind