to ColinIG ....

[fins]

hi mate !
 
  following on from our conversation the other day ,
 
  and related to the fins you want to make for your board [now I understand you meant CURVED fins] ...
 
I hope these shots I hope to be able to post [see below , in bracket] will be a bit helpful for you , in terms of curves , outlines , sizes ?
 
 ...it seems the shots I previously had of laying a panel up on a bucket are not in my files ...if I remember what thread "chippy61" posted them on , I'll add them here , too eh ?  From memory , though ...basically , I layed up about  ? 5 layers of cloth , and before it was fully hard , transferred and taped them to a bucket ...then , added further layers of cloth , three to five layers at a time , with a roller . ...
 
 [ I went to post this at sways , but for some reason [?!] , "photobucket" wasn't letting me "in " , to upload the neccessary shots ? 
 
 .... 'if' / when it DOES , then I WILL  ] 

otherwise , an email or , plan B .... a facebook message , I guess ?!

 

cheers !

 

 ben

[fins]

[fins]

[leading edge , looking to trailing edge ['back' of fin]

 

....If you like , I can post up some shots of  the smaller curved ones too , Colin ?...

 

   ben

[colinIG]

ohhhh maaaaan thank you a lot. now definitely it’ll be easier to make the “concave fins” (is how i like to call them).

So 4’’ base, 5’’ height and an inch for the curve for a normal fin.

I wanna do them as side bits so i am thinking on something like 3’’ base and 4’’ height and half an inch for the curvature.

i don’t know if i am right or wrong but,  have the FCS fins a  perfect curve or it’s a torsioned curve?

 

[fins]

you're very welcome Colin !

 

  ummm

 

  not sure what 'torsioned' curve is exactly ?

 

  But the curve [viewed from front on , like in the last two shots , above]  is a bit more pronounced / "accelerated" [for want of a better word?] in the tip area , so it's not a CONSTANT  / consistent curve  [ something laying up a panel on a bucket or drum would produce .]

 

 The metal ones my mate Marty made [much smaller than THESE Greg Webber ones , pictured above !]  had a much tighter curve / ?radius? 

 

As did the metal template he sent me , for laying up some similarly small ones.

 

I'm still thinking along the lines of laying up a panel on some sort of [heat-proof !] acetate / perspex substance / material , that can be curved , and taped in place ...seems to be more variable , and the tabs might be easier to customise into a few different angles for fcs , too ?

 The kind  of stuff they used [ ? do they STILL  use ? ] in the 'old school' overhead transparency projectors , you know what I mean ?? 

 

  At the moment , for me , a lot of this is still in the  " t[h]inkering " / experimenting stage !  But , that's okay with me  !  :) 

 

   I'm fairly happy with that little blue curved pair that I made , a while bak . I  think that I just need to try them in a few different conditions , and a variety of boards , to see what they are suited to , best ? And I think making them THIN[ner]  is the key , too

 

  ...to be continued , all going 'well' ! ...

 

  cheers mate !

 

  ben  

[fins]

hi again Col !

 

 .....here are a few shots of the smaller metal curved fins ,  that Marty made [no fibreglass]. No, they are NOT sharp !  [to pre-empt any question]

The tabs , you'll notice , are a " bit thin "  ....but , thankfully , he hasn't had the fins fall out ....yet !

 

you may notice that marty shaped some concave / 'scalloped out'  the inside of these fins , too ?  A clever man ...I think from memory he said he had to [labouriously] use a grinder for that . Still , as a boilermaker , a welder , a sculptor , and a metalworker , his metalwork skills certainly allowed him to do it much more easily than this pleb / neophyte would have !

 

convex fins , with inside  concave ?  Marty really outdid himself there , I reckon ! 

 

And , like me also ...

 

.... these were the first curved fins he had ever made !

[fins]

NO WONDER YOU WOULDN'T TELL ME WHAT YOUR SIGNATURE MEANS , Col ?!

 

 so.... THANKS , 'babelfish ' ? !

 

hahaha

 

  classic !

 

  [have to remember this , for a [SLAP in the face !]  'pickup line' ,  eh ?  ...it's cheeesy as !!    Is THAT the best the spaniards  can  come up with , besides ballfighting ?  haha !]

 

Please find your translated text below:

" T, eres de marte? Porque tu culo no es de este mundo.  "

(Spanish)

 

"  T, you're from Mars? Because your ass is not of this world. "    

 ( Ingrish)

Well, THAT'S a bit ODD , to say the least !!

 

WHY ?

 

because ....

 

" ASS "  = DONKEY , by the way !

 

  [ correct spelling and pronouncing , outside of America  =  A R S E  ! ]

 

cheers mate !

 

  [not into donkeys] ben

[chrisp]

Hey guys, Tridrles built some curved fins of his own.

I’m not sure how he layed them up but seems like they came out sweet…

He likes how they go too IIRC. Maybe he’ll chime in or you guys can shoot him a PM.

[fins]

thanks , Chris !

 

 Also , a guy who posted here , YEARS ago, "Moonie" by name , made a pair  from a broken skateboard deck.

 

 [He had the cover of "dark side of the moon" for his avitar photo , I remember]

 

cheers !

 

  ben

[colinIG]

thx guys

Ben this is what i mean with torsion

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zNcwosQbuxM/TxQj3YbR9RI/AAAAAAAAABw/-x8UYJzEdsk/s1600/torsion.jpg

 

This week end i’ll start making the fins, let’s hope everything will be OK.

Now about my signature… ha ha ha ha

[fins]

 I don't know if / why you will really want them twisting sideways under pressure  , Colin ?

 

disclaimer :

 

  I am no 'physicist' , 'ex-spurt' , theorist , or rabid [mass] debater , though ...

 

  When it comes to fins , and surfboards , I just prefer to mainly concern myself with if they seem to work well  / give a good 'feeling' , when actually SURFED !!

 

.....that's what matters most , to me !  (others may differ ...  )

 

  cheers and "ciao!"  for now , mate !   [ it's become a late night here, already ?!]

 

  ben

 

 

[colinIG]

no no no u didn’t understand it… i just asked if the FCS are twisted (torsioned) because i don’t think i wanna make them like that.

i also found a new fin design… 5 degree planular section positioned in the mid section of the fin creates a hydrofoil effect on the surfboard and reduces friction on the contact surface with the water

[fins]

hi mate

I'm sure you like a challenge !

 

[as evidenced by your first board where you basically made your own blank out of ??? who knows WHAT ?]

 

 and I would be the LAST one on 'Swaylocks' to discourage experimenting , and thinking outside of the 'box'

 

 [ ...here it comes....]

 

 

BUT !

 

 .... for the waves you ride , for a total of a couple of years of surfing experience , from shaping one surfboard....

 

  ask yourself , perhaps ,

 

  WHY ?

 

 why complicate things ?

 

 why curved or twisted fins ?

 

 why some funky , hard to make fin ?

 

 why am I making it difficult for myself ?

 

 WILL this be the best performing board , and fin setup , for my setup [beach , and the type of waves I will be surfing] , 98 % of the time ?

 

  if I am not going to ENJOY  this setup , and have more FUN surfing , as a result ....WHY do it ??

 

 Here's a bit of background on me , if this will clarify things a bit [I hope] .....

 

 I haven't always experimented with "different" fins , and "different " boards .

 

for the first [probably ] 25 years of my surfing life , I rode 'conservative ' boards , and fins . Tried to get an idea of what design features  [eg: shape , outline , rocker , thickness , bottoms ] did for a board. And what "normal" fins did ...how they performed , their good and their bad points.

 

  It has really only been since fin systems [fcs ...? 1990s?] , that I have started to play around with fin design , 'moveability' ,  different NUMBERS of fins , and boards .  [ In fact , since 1985 , I have only ever shaped 17 boards , so I would in no way consider myself a shaper , or an expert on THAT ! At least SIX of those were before I had a John Carper shaping and glassing video , to give me a bit of a clue exactly what I needed to do ...and , I only heard about / joined 'Swaylocks' , as recently as 2004 ['chipfish61' days]  ]

 

  If I had done this [making different and difficult fins , and boards] too much in my 'formative' surfing years , it would have confused me , not done my surfing any good , and I probably would have become discouraged . [? And maybe even given it away for a while ? at some stage over the last 41 years since I first had a fibreglass board ....god forbid !]

 

I guess all I'm saying , to summarise in a short sentence , is ...

 

...simplify things , perhaps ? 

 

 learn the basics ...basic board designs , features ...what they do .

 

....Likewise , with fins  ! ....

 

If we have too much going on with the board , then mate that with too much going on with the fins , without having some sort of 'baseline' reference to work from ...

 

 then , HOW will we know WHAT is doing WHAT ?  [.... in terms of our board , our fin[s] setup , ourselves [user shortcomings , I guess I would call it , to be diplomatic]

 

wow , this has been probably the longest written post I have made , for a while !

 

 [ but it's something I feel passionate about , is why !]

 

 Of course , having written all this , I understand and accept that you can go ahead and ignore everything I and others have written here at 'Swaylock's , over the years.  [many do ! ...it's a free world , and we have freedom of CHOICE , of course , in this day and age . Thankfuklly ].

 

 ..... I know  I do the same , when it is stuff I disagree with , or that doesn't work for me , design-wise and surfing-wise . ( After  all, you know what they say about 'arguing on the internet " ??  ....or arguing , in general , in REAL life ....  :) )

 

I only give you this 'advice' , for what it is 'worth' [?!]  ,

 

  .....because I want you to enjoy your surfing , on the most functional [fun , to ride ! ]  board you can make , with fins that are going to HELP you do that [rather than hinder] !

 

maybe try your fairly tricky [for a second board, that is !] board design [if you must be tricky ?!  ha !] with simple , 'conservative'  fin designs first , so you get an idea of what the BOARD is doing . 

  Then , maybe later down the track , when you have um  "mastered" your board [?] ...

 

.....THEN ... maybe you can try some tricky , funky fins [if you really feel you "must" [?] ]

 

 WHY ?

 

 .... because you will by then hopefully have established some kind of 'performance baseline' to work off , in terms of your board's 'feel' , and what you know it / you can do on a wave together.

 

of course , if this is all too " serious" / 'intense' , and you "just wanna have FUN " ,  THAT is good , too ...nothing wrong with THAT , in life !!

 

just don't 'throw the baby out with the bathwater' , so to speak , is the 'gist' of what I am trying to say , regarding maybe give all these words some consideration ... [like I say , I am not one for writing long wordy posts , unless it is some 'issue' I feel passionately about    ...and this , obviously , is one of them ....the 'K.I.S.S. * Principle'  WORKS ! well for me , anyway !]

 

 

[ I enjoy our  "off air" 'chats' ... please keep 'em up , matey !]

 

  cheers Col !

 ben

 

*  " K.I.S.S.  "

 

 that's [HERE , at least !]...

 

  " keep it SIMPLE , surfer !"

 

  

[cleanlines]

I once epoxied a  budweiser can on a board and it worked fine. Rode it for a week before it fell off because all I used was 5 minute epoxy. The cans back then were a lot better. Made out of tin and had to be opened with a church key. I don’t think a modern wimpy ass aluminum can would work as good.

   I am glad to at least something new in fin design. I mean…how many focking versions of a fishes dorsal fin can we make???

[fins]

 

....classic !!

 

    everyone please follow Cleanline's lead , and recycle your beercans as fins ['beerfan' , you can be our new dealer ?]

 

 ....just THINK  of the money we can save on pesky fins , eh ?!

 

  and the fin gashes , to keep surgeons happily in business !

 

  thanks for sharing , Cleanlines !

 

  we read it first at 'Swaylock's , ( just in case anyone tries to patent it ...)

 

  ... I don't suppose you would have a PHOTO  of that setup , please sir ?

 

  I vaguely remember a shot of tom curren , attaching a ROCK to his board for a fin , in a design article in an old surfer or surfing mag ...was probably in tom's stoney days , I'm guessing ?  "things go better withCoke" , etc  ... [used to be an ad on tv back in the 70s here ] occ and tom may have taken that a little TOO literally , perhaps ?

 

  cheers for the fin design tip , cleany !

 

methinks ya just 'may'  have been the inspiration  for the circular fin that Cheyne Horan [ now , THERE'S a fellow who was a free thinker like you , eh ?! ] rode in Hawaii , in a surf movie or two in ? the 1980s ?  ( ahhh .... the good ol' " fluoro fashion days " , eh ?!  :)  .....noice !! )

 

  ben

[fins]

" I once epoxied a  budweiser can on a board and it worked fine. Rode it for a week before it fell off because all I used was 5 minute epoxy "

 

  You were  LUCKY , then , eh ?

 

  ....5 minute epoxy that lasted a WEEK ?!

 

  that would be ONE company you wouldn't bother sueing for false advertising , eh ?! ...

[cleanlines]

Yes Fins let me explain it in simpler terms which (may or may not be easier for you to uinderstand) Ya see… it was a nice day at Cardiff Reef around 1970 or so. The fin broke off of my 6’8" and I went to the beach and started drinking beer with some friends.

    We are hanging around the van and I spied a my five minute epoxy. I jokingly said I was gonna glue a beer can to my board and give it a try. The waves were clean and we said “what the fuck” and glued the can to the board. I ran 3 beads around the edge of the can to give it some buildup…

     I paddled out and lo and behold the damn thing worked! It actually worked pretty good. I came back to the beach and one of my friends gave it a try…it worked for him too. (Ain’t that a hoot).So anyway I rode the board with the budweiser fin for a week or so until I knocked it off. So why did I post this to Swaylocks???

     I posted it to make a point. The point is that fin design has not really changed in 50 years. Ten thousand variations of a fishes dorsal fin is not “design”. It’s just tweaking. Those bent fins are a sign of progress but they are still bent fish fins.

     You have my permission to use the beer can design.

 

[fins]

you could write to buddy weiner ,

 

  get sponsored ,

 

  end up on tv commercials

 

  and start a design revolution unequalled in the history of beer ..er ...surfing contests

 

  that is a GREAT story ,

 

 belongs in a film , and in surfing folklore

 

  just imagine ....

 

  if slater ever won even one heat on one , the whole sheep pack would be demanding a budweiner thruster set tomorrow eh

 

  :)

[fins]

[next time , I will make them thinner , so less foiling and thinning of tabs would be needed ! ]

I would also make them either clear .... or , tinted maybe ?

 

[fins]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY for today , mate ! [sunday 26th may]

 

 I hope you get some GREAT waves , and prezzies !!

 

  cheers

 

  ben