Too much opaque in my resin.....can you help?

Dear Fellow Swaylocks Ethusiasts-

I’m humbly asking for your help as you collectively are a vast resource for a poor soul like me.

While I have been repairing boards (my own and others) for a few years, my problem is this:

I am relatively new to doing opaque/tint work and I now know–having called the resin and

color manufacturer–that I added too much opaque color to a batch of resin (hapol 1300-3,

with pretty fresh catalyst: ~two weeks old).

Now–48 hours after the colored resin was applied–it is still tacky to the touch. Can I give

this a really hot hotcoat using a recipe of 2x (or 3x or 4x?) the recommended and seal the

repair? Normally, I’d just scrape this off, but the entire rail–cutlap to cutlap–of a 9’0" board

has now been colored and I’d really love to know if this can be saved without having to

acetone down the whole goddamn thing.

I would greatly appreciate your help. Thanks and aloha,

EB

"Squinting at me like I might be carrying some sort of

communicable disease, Mickey (Dora) cocked his body and

gave me three reasons why he’d never want to live much

closer to the beach than he already was.

The first reason was vintage Dora. He wanted to keep

surfing and the other aspects of his life completely

separate. "If everyone knows where I live then everyone

will want to come to my house and touch my things and

eat my food. Then they’ll come back when I’m out surfing

and steal from me."

The second reason was one I’d never considered, but

learned to respect over the years. He never wanted to

take the sea for granted and felt that people who lived

at the beach became so used to being close to the sea

that they forgot how special it was. "Every time I drive

down Sunset or Channel and see the beach for the first

time each day, I want to fall in love all over again,

and again."

As if fearing that someone might overhear us, Mickey

carefully scanned the area before revealing his final

reason. “Saltwater,” he whispered.

“Saltwater?” I asked.

“Oh yes,” Mickey said. "Living so close to saltwater is

dangerous because it gets in the air. Then you breathe

it in and, after time, your brain rots like a driftwood

log."

“Oh …” said I.

“That’s why so many surfers we know are so stupid,” said

Mickey.

“Right,” I answered. “So … what about me?”

“Move,” said Mickey. “Move before it’s too late.”

                        -Tom McBride

EB,

Similar thing happened to me last week, and after talking to a couple of people, and getting good advice here on swaylocks (thanks balsa), I did as you suggest, and went over with a hot hotcoat, which appears to have caused the lower tacky layer to kick. Worked out great and was a lot easier than attacking the problem with acetone.

I haven’t tried sanding down to the lower layer to ensure that it did kick, but the surface feels quite solid so I doubt there’s a soft spot underneath.

I guess my problem was that I added the surfacing agent to the resin, but didn’t mix it prior to putting the catalyst in – thought I’d do it all in one step and paid the price. Maybe something similar happened with your tint.

Good luck!

Seagun/All-

Sea: thanks for the advice. I do know that I definitely added too

much opaque to the resin and that was my problem.

How hot a hotcoat should I give it? 2X more than recommended?

3X? 4X? The weather is cooperating today, so I’m going to give

it a go, but I’d really like to know how hot to go.

Anyone else with any advice specifically how to catalyze colored

resin after the fact would be greatly appreciated. My buddy’s

board is hanging in the balance.

Cheers and aloha,

Eric

“It’s gonna take a lot of dynamite to clean this place up.”

                    -Homer J. Simpson

this is the lam coat you’re talking about, correct?

Dear Flatspell-

I am repairing a board that had a large number of rail dings that are repaired.

I wanted to give the entire rail a nice color match…and the rail is still some-

what tacky. Parts are dry, parts are still leaving fingerprints. Another friend

who’d I’d been trying to get ahold of who’s a ding magician and a terrific lam-

inator finally got back to me. He is local (i.e. similar glassing weather to me)

and he suggested that I put the board out in the sun. The weather in SoCal

(where we are) has been cool for glassing (highs of 60) so he thinks that the

sun may well take care of the problem, because today it’s 70-75 and the

board is soaking in some rays as we speak.

So, to answer your question, this is not a laminating layer (i.e. I’m not down

to the foam), but a surface layer. I’m still going to give the board two gloss

coats on top of this, assuming that the sun helps the board cure.

Any other words of wisdom? Please pass 'em along.

Cheers and aloha,

Eric

ECB, assuming that you did use surfacing agent in that coat, maybe the problem comes from “working” too much that layer with the brush, thus not allowing time for wax to come back to the surface. This might explain why some places are dry and others are not… Also, not mixing thoroughly enough… Anyway, another coat on top of this one, clear, heavily catalysed (and with surfacing agent, of course) should solve the problem. You’ll have some sanding to do, be careful not to sand into the colour…

Balsa and other Swaylockians-

Balsa: To answer your question: I was using regular sanding resin, not surface

coat resin. I definitely screwed up in my ratio of opaque color to resin, so that

was not allowing the catalyzed resin to kick properly. Balsa, I’ve got a question

for you: is it better to do color matches while using surface coat resin rather

than sanding resin?

However, it appears my problem has been solved. The weather has not been

cooperating lately–as I may have mentioned–this week the high temperature

was only hitting ~60 degrees with heavy wind. Only today has it finally hit the

70+ degree mark.

My brilliant friend Ray got back to me. He lives not too far away and thus we

have similar glassing/weather issues. He told me to hold off doing the extra

hot surface coat just yet. "Because today will finally be warm, go set that

board out in the sun for a few hours. Turn it regularly so it cures evenly. I

bet that’ll do it."

Sure enough, I did so and it’s finally cured. I’ll give it a relatively hot surface

coat tomorrow (1.5X - 2.0X of normal ratio for 70+ temps) after a light sand

and Ray reminded me to give it two coats of surface (aka gloss) coat resin

before doing a wet sand using either 600 or 1200 grit sandpaper.

Thanks Swaylockians! Simple suncuring did the trick.

Cheers and have a great weekend everyone.

Eric

“Oh look, they even have the internet on computer now.”

                -Homer J. Simpson

Hpwzit ECB, Sanding resin is just lam resin with the SA already added to it . Aloha,Kokua

And what you call “surface resin” (I call it “gloss resin”, but that’s not the point) is formulated with less “accelerator” in it. Accelerator is a cobalt-based chemical that’s included in the resin in various proportions depending on what results you’re looking for. If you put this thing in contact with catalyst (MEKP, or methyl-ethyl-ketone-peroxyde), an explosion occurs. That’s the reason why resin sets when catalyst is added to it: the heat caused by mixing those two products (heavily diluted in the resin) starts the polymerisation reaction. In resins specifically formulated for hot-coats, there’s lots of it (you want it to set-off quickly before too much runs down to the floor) and for gloss resin, it’s just the opposite as you want a slow-setting coat, allowing resin to flow quietly into perfection…

Balsa/FSEs (fellow Swaylocks enthusiasts)-

Thanks again for the sage advice and the chemistry lesson. We’re speaking the same language

re: surface coat resin = gloss resin. I knew some of what you wrote but didn’t know the act

of resin catalyzing is called a “polymerisation reaction”. I didn’t realize there was that much

less accelerator in surface resin vs. lam resin but of course, what you wrote makes sense and

it’s a very good thing to know.

Balsa: if I’m using say 8 drops of catalyst per 1 oz sanding resin in about 70 degree weather,

what ratio do you recommend per oz of surface (gloss) resin, given ~70 degree temps?

Y’all rock. I’m in your debt.

Eric

Interviewer: “Do you prefer playing to a live audience?”

Lowell George: “Rather than a dead audience? Yeah!”

Given the temperature (70°F is about 22-23°C, right?) I would add 0.8% catalyst. I don’t know how many drops that amounts to (I have a graduated cup for catalyst). Better ask Kokua, though: he’s THE man, here, when it comes to resin tricks…