Somewhat along the lines of the previous post, I was wondering if there’s anyone out there who actually does scientific R&D using moving wave models, and who actually watches and monitors the movement of water over/under a board…like they do when putting a car in a wind tunnel. Has anyone produced hard numbers/facts through researching the hydrodynamics of a board? I know on Snake Gabrielson’s site there’s that one guy who wrote a thesis on the hydrodynamics of a board, but it seems he didn’t really have the resources to appropriately/accurately model the reactions of a board to the moving face of a wave. One thing that brought this up in my mind is Morey’s (Y) Swizzle stick. Did he have hard facts that prove those parabolic rails don’t interfere with performance? I certainly trust his experience and feelings, but what about numubers? I know most everyone depends on test-rider feedback to explain the performance of their board, but what about laying down hard facts, instead of only relying on the rider’s perspective? Just curious…deeb… http://www.cooperfishsurfboards.com
Deeb, One of the shapers at our factory, Dev Gregory, has used this type of tech to research his Venturi bottoms. . Totally bitchen guy. Hell of a fricken shaper. aloha, tw
Check around with the universities - particularly those that offer courses in ship design, water hydrolics, aqua engineering, etc. They may have a water simulator tank and students who may undertake such a project for research paper. Or check with Mr. “Y” (formerly known as Tom Morey). Had to throw that in. Afterall, how can you take someone seriously who uses terms like “parabolic”, “afterburners”, “dynamic speed shift”, etc. to describe a surfboard. But what do I know? Many laughed when “Y” (formerly known as Tom Morey) developed and starting marketing boogie boards. [smile]
Professor Rick Grigg over at U.H., Manoa, has a lot of surfer/oceanography, and engineering students all gung-ho on physics and stats. Don’t Know if Rick’s still there, but any seaside academic environment has it’s share of analysts of the waves and dynamics. A lot of kids at U.H., did research on venturi effect with respect to Bonzer boards. I can almost guarantee you’ll find all the info you like at Scripps! Wave on…T.
There are ways and it has been done to some degree. With a flow tank and strain guages you can roughly measure water flow resistance against the bottom of a surfboard. Attaching tiny threads to the bottom and rails would allow one to “visualize” flow. In Surfer’s Journal Vol. 9 Number 2 Jeff Chamberlain writes of George Hawkins attaching tethers to scale models of boats and launching them in rips or dragging them behind his full sized boat. I was told that he even took them out in a river with his scuba gear and while on his back on the river bottom would watch how they behaved in the current. I think most boat builders rely on test tank data to evaluate hull designs. Surfboard riding adds so many variables that any of these testing methods aren’t very effective in my opinion. No two waves break the same and the rider input of postioning, weighting/unweighting, forward and backward weight shifts, leans, etc. make strain guage or test tank data difficult to apply. I personally believe that they must be ridden in real world conditions to even begin to evaluate the performance of surfboards.
Remember the Morey-Pope Camel model ads from way back? Calculated volume using displacement in volumetric tanks? What an ad campaign that was. I think you could find some pretty detailed info in certain circles down at Scripps on surfboard dynamics. Some other sources might be material or interviews with Carl Ekstrom and Greg Loehr’s “Theory of Balance” which is a great flow chart with consideration of lift/resistance between nose and tail of a surfboard. TS>>> Check around with the universities - particularly those that offer courses > in ship design, water hydrolics, aqua engineering, etc. They may have a > water simulator tank and students who may undertake such a project for > research paper. Or check with Mr. “Y” (formerly known as Tom > Morey). Had to throw that in. Afterall, how can you take someone seriously > who uses terms like “parabolic”, “afterburners”, > “dynamic speed shift”, etc. to describe a surfboard. But what do > I know? Many laughed when “Y” (formerly known as Tom Morey) > developed and starting marketing boogie boards. [smile]
I personally > believe that they must be ridden in real world conditions to even begin to > evaluate the performance of surfboards. … Good thoughts…Thanks… Since resource-efficiency and safety are not essential in board design…and since a board isn’t a recognized necessity…there are no government- or trade-established requirements to follow, so I suppose we have nothing like this that forces us to seek out technological advancements in board design. Then again, this could also make us more free to invent…? I was thinking about how much we owe to people like Bob Simmons and Tom Blake…all those theoretical thinkers, without whom we would still be riding tree trunks. I also think of “Y” as one who is aggressively pursuing a more scientific approach. Even some here on Swaylocks seem to take this approach, like Dale S. and others. I’m actually amazed at how far we’ve come by just “feeling” our way into advancements. We know what performance feels like, even though we can’t see what’s going on under our feet. But it would be nice to see how far we could advance in a given time with unlimited research resources, like a moving-wave tank that could accommodate a rider–something that gives the opportunity to see what’s happening under the board/rider. I was just wondering if there’s anything out there like this yet. Maybe I’ll call Scripps…Any other thoughts? Thanks to all…deeb…