Dwight,
So you’re cutting wet cloth? Scissors could get crusty quickly.
Can you do cut laps?
Seems like you’d have to move more quickly to avoid kicking mid-lamination. Are you using a slower resin mix?
Less?
Looks like developing a different skill set with potential for lighter builds without vacuum bagging.
I can see advantages for some alternate applications also.
Correct, I cut wet cloth. I used to use throw-away scissors from Harbor Freight. 8 for $7.00. But I stopped doing that. I got some grey stains on the cuts from the cheap stainless scissors. Now I use high quality scissors and clean after use. I scrub the scissors using orange hand cleaner and scrap 6 oz cloth. The cloth makes a great scrubbing rag.
I use fast hardener. Plenty of time. The resin being spread out on that table so thin, really gives extra time. I have only slowed the hardener down when bagging.
huie is correct. My skills are limited. I can’t lam on a board worth a darn. It’s a mess. But, the local surf factory can, and they can’t touch my weights.
When I took my first magic board to the local factory to copy, they freaked over the weight. Mine had 3 layers on the deck, plus double deck patches. The buyer want a copy, just as light. They went just 2 layers on the deck with no deck patches. They still ended up shy of my weight by 1.5 lbs.
nah more like unproffesional laminating skill
a tight lam is a tight lam easly done by hand
and the table should have a hard surface packing it up defeats the purpose
**another case of search the archive? bert talked this long ago
**
** cheers huie**
You appear to be skilled at the technique presented, your boards are lighter. Efficient and achieve the desired outcome.
Do you only do free-laps or have you done cut-laps also.
Stoked. I have just the project for this technique – should work better than hand lam.
Thanks Dwight, never seen this before so I never would have known to search the archives. Glad you posted. I don’t vac bag either.
May PM you for some minor details.
Huie, I do stretch and staple the plastic sheeting as tight as possible to the table. Mostly because I’m too cheap to buy plastic by the roll, like the Nelson Factory does. So I need to pull the folds out. Its certainly easier with tight plastic, but can’t say it makes a lot of difference.
Again, its easier for me. Not for everybody.
I had a private message asking about pin holes. It was a challenge at first. Probably more of a challenge due to poor skills. But I figured it out.
I do a 2 step hot coat. I mix a tiny batch and squeegee the resin around filling the weave. Then I hot coat with a brush. The total resin used, matches the amount used to wet out one layer of cloth on the table. I’ve always wondered how that usage matches a pro who wets on the board. On the 8’5 SUP I was doing, it was 370 grams per layer and 370 grams for the hot coat.
I’ve watched films,Hand laminated, vacumed bagged, then I got to watch Dwight in person. For multipul layers it really is the way to go. Fast, clean and efficent. No mess and no dry mesh. Like every thing in building it is all in the prep. I got such a kick out of it I’ve gone to watch twice. The boards truly come out light and strong.
Once you do it I think you will agree and won’t do multi layers any other way.
Mr. Burger has contributed several valuable posts at Swaylocks.
Mr. Huie, perhaps you could enlighten fellow Sways members by providing the precise search string required to locate Mr. Bert’s information relevant to the topic under discussion.
i found this little bit
http://www2.swaylocks.com/node/1013702?page=1
there was anouther link on a thread i found but unfortunatly it didnt work anly longer.
Dwight, Thanks for the usefull information and pictures ! Worth pound of gold? Also thanks to Charlie for the link to the Nelson Factory, I watched all the videos and the vertual tour of their factory that was a gold mine !!! Worth two pounds of gold because it shows the whole operation of laminating and also vacume bagging, which most surfer do not understand at all or do they understand the why’s ! I would say hand layup for the home shaper is fine . But when weight and strenth is involved then wet out tables and vacume bagging come into play. Windsurfing I would brake a custom hand layed up Dick Brewer board about every 4 Months ,that got real expensive. After a disagreement with Dicks nephew I descided to go with Vacume bag boards done the same way as the Nelson factory boards and never broke a board after that ,which tells me a lot! The big score for me though watching the Nelson factory tour was how the suport the board in the paint booth so the can shoot both sides of the board at the same time, that was gold for me !! Thanks again you guys !
Looks like the search terms to use are “wet out table.”
But as Charlie pointed out, the Wet Out Table thread by Bert Burger does not exist anymore.
Thanks for posting a thread about your project Dwight. That is what Swaylock’s is all about.
Best of all you posted photos and give a good idea about what you are doing/did.
nah mate not having a go at you but there are many factors here like the type of epoxy being used the fact that i overlooked it was s u p
you keep doing it but i do sugest that bagging it will give an even better performance
cheers huie
So, yah wanna see magic !!! Try this link !!!
http://www.swaylocks.com/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=183391;page=1;sb =post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;guest=9528792
Just high light it and click open link !!! Bert alive and well !!!
Dwight, something else to throw out there for light/durable builds is using Cork as a deck sandwich.
It has a couple benefits, it dampens the ride especially in chop, you can eliminate the outer glass and leave the cork exposed which provides traction and saves you the weight/cost of SUP deck traction, and it allows you to use less glass/resin overall since the cork acts as a bulker and makes a stiffer composite with less glass. The cork is inexpensive too.
I’ve been riding a cork surfboard for about a year and have been on bamboo skinned boards for a few years.
Here’s an exposed cork SUP:
Check out what this guy is up to, he’s WAY ahead of the curve:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Inspired-Surfboards/328509805554
It’s cool that you’re doing your own thing and have obviously figured out your own methods for doing it efficiently.
That’s a classic thread for sure Wood. But this is the link that seems to be dead:
“In this thread http://www.swaylocks.com/forum/gforum.cgi?post=153316#153316 Bert talks about using a wetout table to reduce the amount of resin you use.”
haaa’’ good on drew he has worked hard and deserves it
cheers huie
As mentioned previously; Sailboarders have used this technique many years. Vacum bagging also. Rolling it on PVC is new to me though. I've always seen it done with a helper. The wetted fabric picked up at each end and lifted over the shaped blank adjacent to the table with a person on each end. I'm a traditionalist and work in the lam room alone. Pouring and spreading UV resin mostly. I see the advantages to all three methods. I cerainly would consider trying this with UV. I do think though that when it comes to surfboards a good Australian Formula blank (harder foam, less absorbtion), hand laminated with UV, squeegied tight; is hard to beat for strength to weight ratio. Lowel
A couple of things I forgot though Dwight. I would think that a double hotcoat is a waste of time and resin if your are hoping to gain extra strength from it. Instead, after you have layed up your multi-layers of cloth, tucked the rails etc. do what is commonly called a cheater coat. A final coat of lam resin squeegied onto your lammed blank before it completly tacks or sets.
Lay out the glass on a rocker table and reap the rewards…
In the year 2012-2013… If you’re NOT vacuum bagging on the laminate, be it a table wet out or what ever… You’re pretty far behind the times… By about 10-15 years…
VanHelsing.