Turning surf knowledge into money.

Industry Talk
41

Deadshaper,

   Heading along the 'weight reduction' idea of yours, Ive toyed with removing all the foam and taking away the deck skin to just leave the functional basics, the hydrodynamic hull and hollow rails and fin/s. Thats all, and all in carbon for strength. Alaias/paipos have proven that only minimal bouyancy is truly essential so why not cut it from surfboard design?

 At that level of material reduction, the rails would need to be reduced down to a minimalist half rail of just the lower half.  A hollow rail would have more bouyancy than one filled with foam so rails can be cut right back/ minimalist re-designed.

Maybe thats going too far but its certainly possible, and maybe a single skin open hull that holds air under it for bouyancy when paddling. or a thin (1/2 in) hollow twin skin?

It could be built but it would only be practical for the pros to ride. And would there be money in it? I can certainly whip up a few uber-future boards along those lines, but would they sell?

 What do you think ?

42

Hi Brett,

I thought you might find this of interest:  http://tommorey.com/blog/?p=53

Dale

43

Dale--------- Thanks for that post and link.  Enlightening.  Hope you are doing well.  I need to PM you the next couple of days and touch base.   I've been bouncing back and forth between up there and So. Cal.  I'll sit down in the next couple of nights and do so.  Lowel

44

Hi Dale, thanks for the link, if I could choose a designer to be related too, it'd be Tom.

Ive been working on my own boards and Im going with a single shape, something thats suitable for 1-6 ft wave range ( as most people ride)

 I went to a foam moulding company today in Sydney and they can make a perfect moulded foam board in high density( 32g)  EPS that is a perfect copy of my prototype, surf-ready, ( just slap a deck decal on it) for only $12.86, includes delivery to my door or to a distribution depot of a large retailer.

 Wow, its a basic technology that will pump out cheap boards that are replaceable and they will do good service for the mass market. The boards are light, safe, pretty to look at and a funky eye-catching shape with deck contours.

 

 

But the mould will cost $25 000....

 

Another alternative is to go to another company Im in discussion with that will vacform a thin shell of ABS (a plastic popular for car parts) over an EPS core, It'll be bulletproof and an alternative to the high end commercial bodyboards but the but I think the unit cost is going to be >$50 so way more expensive to make commercial quantites.

 And Im not going to make it overseas, everyone has a choice to support their own country and thats my choice.

 

The 3rd option is to make a concrete/ fibreglass 2 part mould and blow polyurethane boards and then spray paint a waterproof coating and colour them and do it all myself and Ive done boards from go to whao many years ago and thats no way to start a modern surfcraft company.

 Ive already sorted a connection to one of the buyers for a big retailer in Australia who could take all the boards I make because I want to sell 10000 units this summer and expand the range for next year.

 What I didnt want is I didnt want to go aroung trying to put a few boards in every surfshop on consignment and spend my life chasing shitty accounts, listening to hard luck stories and driving around earning a pittance. Ive been a rep before so I know how that happens.

 I thought about selling online too, but its a slow complex process... Paypal,banks accounts,customers,postage, wrapping, couriers, insurance, premises. Theres money in the online route but if I can secure a deal with a big retailer, I could have a 5000 board order in one sale pitch, and that sounds pretty good.

See what happens.

 

45

Finally I found a surf product to make, and a manufacturer without going offshore, Im at the prototype stage and might be able to have a first run out by Xmas !

  Please have a look at the designs and comment/ feedback if you like or hate the look or the construction tech. Its all about using the hydrodynamic design of surfboard construction and using it in a different format.

 Im going to sell them at dirt cheap prices initially and them hopefully put out a 2.0 version that reflects the feedback from riders.

 I should be able to get them out of the factory at $110 each which isnt too bad really !?

http://stormbodyboards.blogspot.com

46

Selling at cost? Wow…very generous of you!

47

Mattp, Ive looked at it many ways and I think its got merit to sell your first run(s) at a very low cost, heres my reasons....

1. if I try to sell them at a high price I might never sell any, and be stuck with a warehouse full of bodyboards. I might think the boards are great and worth a fortune, but if no-one else does then Im screwed.

2. its a great way to introduce your product and yourself to the public by offering it at a totally reasonable price so its clear that youre not in it for the bucks or over-hyping your product.

3. Typically businesses take years to become profitable and I dont think greed is a suitable starting position, it just sits better with me that a better way to build a business is by offering as much as you can in all sorts of ways. Did you have a look at my money back Guarantees ?

 If I offer a great product at a phenomenal price and back it with brilliant guarantees, I might have a shot at getting into the market and building a business.

 What do you think?  Is there anything else I could offer or do ?

Thanks for looking at the site guys !

48

I did look at your guarantees…they are also generous and will probably inspire confidence in the product.

 

As for the business strategy, I’ve heard of similar but that aspect of things (pricing strategies) is not really my forte.

 

Regardless, you should be congratulated for having the courage to start a business - lots of people talk or dream, but not many people actually “do”.

 

 

49

Thanks mattp, certainly Ive gained from the folks here at Sways who always have different aspects and outlooks on design and good advice. No one person could ever know all the knowledge thats on these pages for free.

And I kinda hope if I get stuck with business ideas that the guys here will always offer up some options. Or tell me to get stuffed, either way I learn something !

50

what do you mean free.

the depth of your obligation

though not measured in a tuition check

Is surely imense,and will be due and payable

in forthrightness and sharing of all you indeed

accumulate.

...ambrose...

can I borrow the Kar Ma?

I'm goin' to the beach

51

Ambrose , that forthrightness and sharing is available to see at the blog for my new venture which is totally a result of this particular thread. The good advice given here and even warnings have allowed be to careful in my selection of ideas, the overall wealth of shaping info shared has greatly improved my perspective of the 'white block' (eps blank) and the meaning of shaping and the language of shape in all things.

 And so my forthrightness is my action to birth a business and my sharing is that I offer my progeny at cost with no financial gain.

 Whether I sell a single board is not a measure of my worth but my worth is that Ive created something from my love of the sea and that I can offer it to  others for them to share that love.

This board is me. 

I realise my debt to you all and I have fulfilled my obligation.

 

 

 

Ambrose...take the bike, its better for you.

52

Surffoils…I absolutely LOVE the way you are thinking.

As you know, I’ve been involved in general consumer products and the process you are now discussing to bring an idea from concept to completion.

Let’s go back to one of your earlier posts, which among other things is pertinent to the composition of the product. As far as the design trapping air underneath for “bouyancy”…I’m sure you realize your word selection is incorrect. Concavity doesn’t equate “bouyancy”, it creates resistance which results in lift. The lift is directly dependent on energy expended to produce planing speed adequate to create lift. Okay, so “geek speak” aside, I’m sayng that a single skin is NOT the way to go unless it inherently has bouyancy due to its composition…IOW, EPS or PU foam. My vote is for EPS because of superior bouyancy possibilities and compression considerations. Also ts light weight is better for shipping considerations.

A concrete mold versus the expense of $25K up front is worth looking further into. Marko produces EPS molded surf blanks and I see no reason why you couldn’t mimic their approach. A waterproofing, sprayable reinforcing chopper gun type of approach, or a colored gel coat reinforced type approach. Boat or spa molds is another avenue worth exploring. Shoot reinforced colored gelcoat (or alternative material) into a mold with EPS and pop em out. To be honest, I’m quite surprised this isn’t already commonplace with offshore production or domestic cheapie surfboards. Seems like a no brainer.

Having a large retailer that can handle in house distribution to their stores is an optimum scenario for selling numbers. However, don’t rule out internet sales for being to labor intense, merely find a capable source that is already active doing the same for other products and find out what they need to make for providing the service. Better yet, if you can find a source that will produce your product to your satisfaction and also offer drop shipping for your orders (regardless of where the orders come from) then you may be much closer to green lights.

The above is as close as I cn think of in this particular case to creating a attractive stream of income that almost ressembles passive income.

The concept of this design has already been realized by George Greenough (of course) years ago with his flex spoon utilizing what George termed “neutral bouyancy”. Your design is similar yet different so kudos to you as well. George would whole heartedly approve of your effort.

Light, affordable, accessible.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

This could be the biggest deal since Tom Morey conceptualized/realized the Boogie Board…go for it!

Warning: once again…the mind oves faster than the pinkies…so NOT spellchecked.

 

53

Im doing a basic shape first for the first run of boards, something that handles average beach breaks. Heres the prototype progression...

 I had to shape it from a particular density EPS to check bouyancy and flex...

 No.1 @3.25 in thick

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/Foil029a.jpg[/IMG]

 

No.2 @2.5 in

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/BD002a.jpg[/IMG]

 [IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/BD004a.jpg[/IMG]

And now No.3 @2.0 in. Complete foil, mega low rails.

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/pro313.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/pro34.jpg[/IMG]

 Sleek minx. ooh baby...

 The change in thickness reflects a corresponding thinning of the rails and overall reduction in float. The 3.25" was like a river barge to turn and no2. began to paddle thru the water like a comp standup board instead of 'corking' over it.

 Glassing as we speak, ready to go by Fri .

54

I have a knack for money. I can take money and make more money.

55

SO as I move closer to putting the board on the market Im realising that making money from surfcraft has nothing to do with sitting on a surfboard. What with the public and product, 3rd party liability insurance, applying for all the government permits and registrations, filing and cross referencing everything onto a computer and in paper form, this is no fun at all.

 So far all Ive done is write/type/call and pay out money for more bits of paper.

And the prospect of making any profit is getting smaller and smaller.

Bugger...

56

Sounds about right…the details of doing business are oftentimes no fun at all.

 

Sometimes I yearn for the days of being an employee again just so someone else has the headache. But, then I remember how nice it is not to have anyone to report to, etc.

57

I think being your own boss suits the surfers personality well. Its turning into a pain but as you say, theres no one to report to. Or give you shitty looks or hand their shit over for you to do or give you the sack.

58

Yeah, I like owning my own island, but there’s a lot of upkeep so it can stay nice. Can I fire myself and collect unemployment? Where’s MY “golden parachute”?

59

Theres always the option to either 'lease' out the name of your business in the form of a clothing label or to sell the business , with an ad something like this...

 Be a SURF GOD, have heaps of friends, be your own boss.

Make surfboards and make MONEY with your own surfboard business !

 Long term owner making way for bright young man with fresh ideas, easy business to learn, lots of days off, growing market.Too much work for original owner.

  Be a mover and a shaker in the coolest business ever. Make an offer and move up into the world of international travel, chicks in bikinis and cash !

 Phone Klondike 555-

There must be a lot of stoopid cashed up kids looking to spend their folks money ?

60

"Trickle down economics"..........wasn't that Reagan?

Is that what Bernie Madoff was practicing? Maybe we should have let him'spread the wealth more.......grrz, what a ride he had. The problem is there are people out there with obscene amounts of money that get even greedier the more they have.

"Greed is good"...................Michael Douglas in "Wall Street".

Wow, how prophetic can a movie be.

And then there is my earlier statement in (yet) another thread that stated

Wealth is having a new quiver and the time to surf them.

Been down so long, looks up to me?