Why is it that most twin fins have a swallowtail? Is there any particular reason? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a roundtail or squash-tail twin fin before, and I was wondering if there was any real explanation.
You missed the whole generation of round and squash tail twin fins, by being born too late.
Late '60’s early '70’s, tons of 5’6" x 20" twin fin round, squash, and diamond tails.
Best goof backside I ever saw was TomOverlin mostly riding a roundtail twin, just under 6’ long.
The idea of a swallowtail was thought to be terrible. Who needs all those pins to make the board stiff and tracky, when round, squash, and diamond worked just fine.
Like ladies hemlines, fashion comes and fashion goes, there’s no direct link to performance.
Part of the reason a lot of twin fins were/are made with swallows (many with wings also) is probably due to the fact that when Mark Richards came out with his incarnation of the twin they were winged swallows. The ones that came out in the early 70s had mostly wide square, or diamond tails (the ones I saw anyway), and were way wider than the MR version. His outlines were a bit more pulled in than the previous twins and Lis fishes that came before it. I do remember seeing a lot of rounded pin and squash tailed twins coming out of Florida, most commonly used by then groms Matt Kechele, Pat Mulhern and Glen Klugel.
Howzit foamdust, Maybe some body thought to themselves that since real fish have tails we should put them on fish boards, just kidding, but when you think about it.Aloha,Kokua
JLW,
If your question were a nail, LeeDD hit it bang on. The virtues are imaginary. It is fashion only. I currently ride a twinfin with an 8" hard squaretail.
I love riding twin fins on a wide round pin tail or diamond tail. Heck, I pull out my center fins on a 2+1 longboard just to loosen things up in small surf. I was never a real fan of a fish / swallow tail. Too many dings with the split tail. I recently made a retro style 6’10" wide board that can be ridden as a single, twin or thurster set up. I like changing fin configurations according to the wave conditions.
I remember seeing Mark Richards ripping at Arma Huts in the 70’s on 7’+ twin fin when he first came to Hawaii. We were all asking who is that guy and what was he riding. He just blew us away. I am aging myself here.
Adjusting fins and fin configurations are great ways to tweak more performance out of your boards. Have fun with it.
is it coz there’s a little more bite when the board is on a rail??
funny but i can remember in the late 70’s/early 80’s plenty of twinnies has flyer/rounded pin combos, and some had the trippy looking bat-tail - two enormous double flyers (at least an 1.5 inches) going into a small sharp pin tail
Sorry to kind of change the subject, but since it was brought up how do batwings perform, I was thinking of making that for my next shortboard, using a 5 finset up, just so I have options to ride it as a twin, quad, thruster or a 5 fin. Pay day this week and time to pick up a couple of blanks, to keep me out of trouble.
Speaking from personal experience, the split tail may not enhance performance but I think it will affect it. I’m talking about 11 to 15 inch wide tail blocks (pods) not the narrow swallows where I agree with you wholeheartedly.
If you place your feet too far aft, the wider tail will lose purchase regardless of the number or location of the fin(s). If you reduce the planing ability of the tail by cutting out area, the board becomes much more user friendly. Now you can do this by narrowing the tail or cutting a wedge out of the middle. Narrow the tail and you are introducing more curve to the outline and all that brings. By cutting a wedge out of the middle you can keep straight rails right on through.
I’m not sure if anyone was thinking about this when they started the split tail. Simmons used them for God only knows what reason and Lis used them 'cause he was used to seeing them on someone else’s wide tailed boards. I think the rest of the swallow tail thing evolved from Steve’s fish.
I’m not saying you can’t performance surf a wide-tailed square, arc, or round tail twinny, you just have to be very sure of your footing to avoid washing- out.
the twinnys that Mark Warren , Terry Fitzgerald [and , yes, Mark Richards!] rode in 1970 were short , wide square tailed things , made by Geoff McCoy , with a fin on each corner of the tail !
I think it was ?“Benny1” ? who posted a shot of a John Arnold s-deck tiny twinny from around that era here .
My first board would have been a similar shape . Except , in my case , twinnies had been ripped out , and replaced by a wooden glassed-on single fin , before I got it …[otherwise, I could have said I learnt to surf on a twin fin…in 1971 !!]
ben
OR…you can add bigger more aggressive FINS instead of the standard early '70’s 5" tall weenies.
Notice some keels nowadaze are 5" tall x 9"!!!
That’s almost double the area of the early '70’s fins.
Except mine. I always used 6"ers, and if overhead, maybe up to 8" for the side fins.
And at 140 lbs in the '70’s, they didn’t spin out, drift, or wander whatsoever.
Swallows ding, break, are not protected by stringer, put area out on the rail, just no good for my style.
Maybe good for other peeps, I’ll give you that.
…hi Lee !
while I’ve got you there , what size base would those 6-8" deep twin fins have had , please ?
I’m curious , because I want to build a few pairs [especially since I weigh what you mentioned , and the no spin out thing sounds good to me .
[Also , how far up from the tail would they have been , and were they ‘straight ahead’ , or angled to the nose a little ?]
thanks for any help !
ben
I just mainly used StarSystems standard 6", 7.25, and 8" fins, with normal chord and similar to tail fins on 2+1’s.
Average tail widths around 15", leading edge right at 12" forward of tip of tail, WPoints then were about 4.5" up from center.
I ran them parallel with the stringer, as I tend to mostly surf head high or bigger at OBSF, and our waves move in really fast compared to the rest of California.
The squash or diamond helped with quicker turning, instead of toe-in. I hated dropping in on flat OH waves on boards with toe-in fins, as they seem to drag and take foreever to hit bottom, and never get up to speed.
One of my favorite current boards is a homemade (not by me) 6’8" x 20.5 tri fin that has dead straight side fins. It makes sections that nobody can make, and scoots full speed under whitewater as if it was high trimmed.
When I ride my more normal tri fins, I’m a slog and have to rely on rollercoasters and settle for straightening out, like everyone else.
thanks for that , Lee !
I’m wondering …would these measurements be around right , then ?
6" depth , c 5 1/2 - 6" base
7.25" depth , c 6 3/4 -7" base
8" depth c 7 1/2" base ??
or would the bases have been smaller , like maybe…
6" deep , 5" base
7.25" deep, 6" base
8" depth , 6 3/4 - 7 1/4" base ?
I’ve drawn up a few templates [“keels vs fins” thread ]…
… some I like , some I’m not sure on . If you’ve ridden any similar , I’d be keen to hear .
Our waves here are also fast moving , especially in winter … so , I’d be hoping for added thrust and hold with some deeper twin FINS on my 5’11 fish .
thanks !
ben
Been a long time…
I’d say it’s more extreme than the second set of examples, with narrower chords.
Fins look like normal single tail fins.
Most peeps, upon first seeing them, thought they’d interfere with each other, causing a stiffenning effect.
Not really true, unless I’d install the 8" fins on a 3’ mushy wave, in which case it rode like a 7’ fast single fin…not all that terrible either.
For me, adjustability is not bad, as some days, I feel like cruising and expending little energy surfing, while others, you never know.
yep , thanks !
It’s interesting you say that about what people thought upon seeing them , because one of my neighbours stuck a couble of basically single fins on an M.R. twinfin he found in a dumpers bin [?!] in Byron Bay [or , so HE claims , anyway !]
I looked at it sceptically , but when I surfed it , found that it actually felt really GOOD !!
…it just goes to show …something, I guess !
Actually , it was probably that board , along with you mentioning a few times here about deeper twin fin setups , that got me curious enough to be making some in the near future…
cheers !
Ben
and , to get it back onto twin fin tails …[sorry for the fin sidetrack, crew] …
I wouldn’t mind having a bit of a narrower diamond tail twinny .
[The one I’ve got has a wide diamond tail , it is only a short little board [5’9 x 20"] , and it has a LOT of vee in the bottom , which I find hard to adjust to , for some reason . ]
But perhaps a 6’+ twinny , diamond or square or rounded pin , or even , as mentioned , a winged pintail…with bigger fins , little or no vee , and with maybe softer rails than this one has …could be worth checking out / making ?
Chipfish, ride your current wide tailed, deep V’ed twin as a semi gun and you’ll be stoked!
Long hard rail digging bottom turns on bigger surf, long fast flowing lines.
Don’t ride it like a chip tri or pivoty twin.
Would this board go ok with twin keels?? It is just under 20’’ wide, it has a 15’’ nose and tail, and the widepoint is dead on halfway, and it’s 6’ long. I chopped it down from a windsurfer, and as you might be able to see i did not use a template!!. My local shaper is making some keels, but he doesnt make them to fit boxes, only glass ons. I dont want glass ons on my fish, coz i want to be able to change the fins, so i thought i’d get him to glass the keels onto this.
hiya Beery !
[this is only my ‘preference’ , for what it is worth , but …]
put in four or six fcs plugs , and cut the tabs in the keels. Get the guy to make the keels at least 1/2" deeper , to allow for reshaping for the fcs tabs…
That way you can also try the board as a TWIN fin , a thruster , and a single fin , if you put in a finbox .
I wish I was there to help you mate , as I have spare fcs plugs and a spare small finbox , at the moment .
cheers
ben
Chip, im saving my finboxes for my fish mate!. I went in the other day to see the keels, they look great, but when i asked to buy them, he just said to bring the board in when its ready, he seemed set on it, so i didn’t push him. I was planning on doing exactly what you said, as i’ve made up a mould at work for the finbases with the pin and screw, in fact, i’ve got two single foiled keels at work at the moment, ready to be glassed, finally, after 2 or 3 attempts, i’ve got the bases sussed i think!. He seems o.k, and since i’ve started the fish, i dont really know what to do with this board, so i thought i’d get him to glass the keels on to it. It’s also going to be a dummy run for my uv hardener, which im waiting for in the mail now, and also my first resin tint. The fish, however, will have boxes, so i can swap fins over, and definately a box for a single fin option. Once the uv hardener comes, which should be tomorrow, i’ll have everything ready to glass my fish, cant friggin wait!!!.
P.S, i’ve been to a few surfshops in the last few days, checking out what’s around. I have noticed that while the “new technology” boards look great, they feel kinda plastic. Not trying to put shit on them, but, they just feel, weird. Anyway, im a kook, so what do i know?. I also saw a copy of a mccoy nugget. Ugly, ugly looking board! has nothing on the original i reckon!
Cheers and beers!