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General Discussion
1

I have been really having fun shaping my new boards. I am setting up to glass my first in the next couple of days. Today I rushed to a certain supply house to buy all the rest of what I needed for glassing. The salesperson (who may be the owner) is in a hurry to get me out of there. Their’s a few other people buying stuff too. He doesn’t want to tell me anything on how to make a board. Even though I’ve spent alot in the last month. Today when I asked him if he had a template for setting fin angles , he pointed at a sign that read we just sell the materials not tell you how to use them. I almost let him have it , but his prices are good and their’s only one other place which is expensive. So I had to quietly take my stuff and go. I remember the same thing years ago when material supply houses for building materials had this attitude till Home Depot came along and took the market. Cant wait till they sell resin at a place like that and I wont have to deal with disgruntled workers anymore. (born with their knowledge)

DR

2

When you buy lumber do you expect the salesman tell you how to build a house?

3

Personally in this situation, I’d give the guy a pass!

If he’s the only worker in the store at the moment and he’s

busy or wants to get out on early on Christmas eve,…then he

points to the sign.

There are pertinent straight away questions that people can

answer and then there are the ‘clueless’ questions which

means that the person asking them needs a serious sit down

and some heavy tutoring. You shouldnt expect that from a retailer.

Asking about a ‘‘fin angle template’’ may be one of those

‘clueless’ questions that will get you the brushoff because the

guy doesnt have the ‘time’ to straighten you out and may be the whole reason for the sign.

Afterall he’s selling supplies and advice when he has the time

‘For Sure’!!!, but he is in the supply business and does have

other customers.

I’m sure he sells Shaping and Glassing Videos and books, if you

havent gotten one of these, then maybe its seriously showing.

As to fin angle placement thats a whole subject within itself

some people use a string to the nose of the board, others off set

by a 1/4 inch or so, others use angles…this all being for toe-in,

Cant: is another deal. Its not simple. Search the archive for

‘toe-in’ and ‘cant’

4

buy your supplies where you can

bring your questions here

make them as specific as you can be…

merry Xmas to all

and to all a good night!

5

And don’t forget if you follow the salesman’s instructions explicitly, and you hate your board, and his “guru” says you are wrong, he might feel liable or you might take it as “false information”.

Question of toe-in has as many answers as there are answerers.

My general take is “1/2 way to the nose stringer”

But my 6’8"er with dead straight no cant side fins works just fine!

6

How about the process of sticking the canted fins on a board? What do the professionals do? Hot melt glue? Super glue? I haven’t done it much, but I usually rubber band the fin to a beer bottle filled with sand, and insert two or three thin cardboard shims between the bottle and the upper part of the fin. I put a little thickened resin on the bottom of the fin, set it on the pencil marks on my board and then glass a couple layers of cloth on the outside of the fin. Is that kooky or close to normal?

7

You’re in the right direction.

Check the archives as I’m sure there will be something there.

8

When I’m laying my money down what I expect is a bit of common courtesy. If a guy is too busy for a few questions let me know and give me a time to get back. Even if they are dumb questions. Do that and you have a life long customer. I bought supplies last week and the staff seemed a bit bored and impersonal although the older more mature employees are pretty helpful. Yes, if I buy lumber from you I do expect you to tell me how to “build a house” in a manner of speaking. Thats why I try not to buy from Home Depot type operations. You can never find the person who can answer questions. I spend more money and go to the local lumber/hardware retailer and they tell me how to “build a house.” Surfers can be the biggest dicks. mike

9

… and everyone should know the difference between a lowest cost

provider and a normal service retailer vs. a full service retailer.

You pay what for what you receive in one way or another.

But its a huge mistake to be expecting Full Service from a

low cost provider.

My lady and me had relatively cheap rent for an area in a very

nice apartment. But my girlfriend just couldnt stop complaining

about every little thing even though I told her that this was

cheap rent and they wanted to keep their costs down.

Well you guessed it, she kept pushing for small and sometimes

unneccessary but major things…Our Rent was raised!

Its best to keep within expectations relating to what your

paying for.

10

Sorry, I was a bit overwhelmed by all the fin stuff in the archives. Sort of like looking for info in a library where all the books are strewn on the floor. I just needed to search on “tacking fins” to get to a thread like this one

http://www.swaylocks.com/forum/gforum.cgi?post=127291;search_string=tacking%20resin;#127291

11

I got a good idea what shop it was.

Just because he’s the salesperson doesn’t mean he knows either.

You can cut cardboard or wood at 4 degrees…or whatever to get your angle/tilt/cant. Toe is best to measure from the stringer w/ a straight edge…a piece of molding or the edge of a metal tape measure will work.Herb

12

If the guy in the store knew how to do it, he wouldn’t be working retail for peanuts, he’d be out making decent money setting fins (or building houses, or repairing cars etc, etc…) Ponder that one and then think back to how many times you’ve been given misinformation by the guy behind the counter.

My advice, buy your supplies where its cheapest/most convenient and bring your questions here or to the archives

13

Thank you PB!

I can vouch for that, having worked retail for 30+ years in the surfing and windsurfing business.

Often, out of 10 employees, only 2 have knowledge, along with the owner. Well, 2 more might, but they won’t/can’t divulge any useful info at all.

14

I get my board supplies at one of two places. Both a two hour round trip drive for me. I don’t waste time asking the goofy kids behind the counter questions other than,“Would you please get me 7 yards of this or that…” I do ask owner/managers questions and have usually gotten good information. I have enough common sense to know whether someone is too busy for a detailed questions. I don’t like the “who’s this guy” attitude you get from some of the kids like I just paddled up to the peak they were sharing. I’ll buy somewhere else. Also, there are many retired/injured guys working retail with a wealth of information from the trades. Swaylock’s is where I go for the real info, though.Mike

15

Thanks guys for all the input. I guess I should have provided a few more facts. First most of that day there were few customers in the store, in fact I was there most of the 20 minutes just me and him. I am in the process of gathering materials and tools… I love tools especially the kind that make the job go easier. These guys have everything but most tools are behind that counter and you have to ask. I bought glassing 101 and airbrushing 101 from him. I bought my Clark foam Hitachi planer from the other cool guy who works there, but wasn’t there that day. I must have spent at least a grand there in the last month. This one guy knows this. He always watches me as I pull cash out of my pocket. He only accepts cash there no checks or credit cards, so you know he’s not paying tax on top of that money ( thats cool , but more reason to be nicer to your cash clientele) He was not only a … to me, but one other guy was there one day when I was waiting, and he wouldn’t answer the guys fin questions which were also about install. The guy was big and cocky and repeated the question to this … till he finally answered. But not until the guy said oh please tell us mr surf guru !!! So it’s not just me asking silly questions as some may think here. If I owned a retail store, my goal would be to give good service, including a knowledgable staff, build a good relationship with customers to have them for life and # one get their money !!! The goal of all companies.

    One other thing, I check the archives sometimes and there is alot of clutter to comb through till you find your information.  If you read above there is another guy who was looking for something and someone told him the standard reply here to look it up.  Well If you don't have any input, you dont need to tell us that.  Most already know that.   99 % of the people on here have been great and very helpful to us new guys ( and patient)  I'm so glad to have found a site like this with a great bunch of guys who share the same interest, love, and challenge of both design build ,and most of all surfing...
16

HA,

Must be

Am I right?

17

No , and I dont think that giving names out on here is approriate. It’s not fair to the owner. nor does it matter. Just venting frustration here. I am a business owner so I look at everything as to how people treat their customers. In business terms. To Make money !!! blows my mind how some people bite the hand that feeds them. I guess some people have different goals with their company’s ?

18

This is a common attitude in the Surf industry. I mean we have companies like Quiksilver that will not sell the small shop owner because the big shop owner gets mad, but they still sell to Dillards and PAC Sun type places. How much sense does this make.

I would say most surf shops I have been into have this attitude. Something about this industry that lends itself to this.

19

I believe that sign is at Basham’s and go ahead and “give” it to him, but like it says, we sell to people with experience. Basham’s is one of the best places to buy your stuff from. They could have given you the wrong advise for your particular board, wouldn’t that have been better?

20

Good points about the archives, industry gurus and apparel outlets (surf shops), Dronai.

Seems to me the current state-of-the-art isn’t…Hmmmm…

How about a Surf Depot store? Combination Foam-ez and Home Depot?

Supplies and HANDS-ON instructional help for the do-it-yourselfer… I’d buy my supplies there.

ex. pertaining to this thread - display board thats lammed and ready for fins that your bone-head help could show how to get the cant with a cardboard angle template and toe-in with a long rule or tape measure and materials to use, you could even have a poster with step-by-step instructions up on the wall.

I go to Ganahl for the materials (beautiful redwood heartwood and etc.) but I’ll sit in on one of those Home Depot do-it-tip thingies…

UNTIL you find Sways you’re at the mercy of a very limited pool of knowledge keepers that seldom let the info flow downward.