Acqua, I think those Origin fins are out of the equation, tha bases aren’t deep enough. Ive never seen anyone actually using them…?
All the others could fit into a slot / box bout 10 mm wide. How about this sort of arrangement… It’s taking a broad stroke at a solution but it covers fins that are straight like FCS and bent like Futures and can lock fins in at 0 or 6 degrees.
heres another thing to clonsider, not trying to be negative, just tryying to bring up hurdles I see.
The FCS2 and Fin-S tabs causes the base of the actual fin to sit 1/2-3/4" further back in the box than a Futures or fin.
so say your box channel was 4.5 inches like a Futures box, your fin placement would be off for FCS2 and FIn-S fins. as they would set further back
You would almost have to create a longer channel thinking of the FCS2 bases first then engeneering for that first. HOWEVER… in Doing that you now have a box bigger than a standard futures box, which with tail rocker will be even more challenging on both the design and install.
Keep in mind, FCS wants to get away from the old style 2 tab system entirely. so that base should be the last factor in design, although its probably easiest to incorporate.
also, the different tab sizes of the fins as far as depth goes.
IE
Futures is 3/4 and 1/2"
FCS is 5/8
Not sure on FCSII and Fin-s I think Fin-S is 1/2 and FCSII most likely 5/8
So in theory, you would have to run a 2 box setup like futures 3/4 fronts and 5/8ths rear?
Problem in that is front boxes, all the fins will “float” in the box except the futures. and in the rear the futures would float. There may also need to be a insert setup for different style fins. fo fill that space and support the bases.
Acqua, I appreciate the hurdles you are sending my way, it gives me a chance to see if its actually possible before I start putting serious thought into it.
Hi Surfoils. Your section would be tricky (but probably not impossible) to tool. It is undercut and would need a slider in the tool (in both core and cavity) to make it work. More expensive than a simple open/shut tool. These sliders would also need to be compatible with the sliders which are required to form the screw holes - which are by their very nature in all fin boxes and not in the line of draw. Or you could make it in two halves and glue or sonically weld them together. Of course if you are going to 3D print instead of traditional tooling, then all things are possible.
I see them around allot in Hawaii
one of my surflights I got from Jim Richardson has them
Charlie (BB10) has tried them you can ask him
but I think they went out of business
I thought Dave Skedelski from Surfco was experimenting with it
he comes up with all kinds of stuff
Oneula, good to know other people are thinking the same way.
Making a product that’s only compatable with their own fins seems to work for all these companies but it’s not exactly what the surfers want, I’d rather have a box that took every type of fin or a fin that fit every box. And if the fin sits a fraction too high or low its still a win for me as long as it holds securely. The flexibility is the main factor.
RDM, That 3-D printing sounds amazing, that might be the way to go and if we’re thinking outside the box I wonder if some sort of exotic plastic extrusion might work as well and cap the ends ? Or Aluminium?
This would definitely be a project for Kickstarter ! For a $10 contribution they would get 1 set but for $500 they would get 100 sets to sell and turn into $1000.
Charlie gave me his jig and remaining sets of boxes he had. I had bad luck with them, so I passed them onto the fin foiler at fins unlimited. He modifies them before he glasses over them BC the glass cracks over the flanges due to the small surface area of the flange. The side inserts are canted to 6 degrees. The surfinz owner is not interested in continuing these boxes, but is pushing his boxes that are only compatible with twin tab FCS. I’ve had the f3 boxes split, screws strip, and the rear tang crack with them. I will never use surfinz boxes again.
Surffoils. Once you have a CAD model you could 3D print in a structual plastic such as nylon if you wanted a few protoypes to test. But piece cost would probably be too high if you were thinking of 3D printing for production - although that will change in the future as 3D printing technology becomes cheaper and speed increases. A capped extrusion could work but you would need to jig and drill holes for the fin fixing screws.
Wow Ghostshaper
makes me wonder about the surflight I got. But Jim gave me a couple of blue surfinz fins for the rear since he said the fins were made for the box. hope it holds up.
When I bought my Lokbox install kit they had adapters for FCS fins for their box. Its a little tight but it works.
I kind of like the way the lokbox boxes are glassed in and the way the tab works not as convenient as FCS fusions or probox but nice flange design.
Robin Mair’s new gearbox fin box (http://gearbox-surf.com/) looks nice too.
Here’s a shape that accepts the right depth, width and angle for both FCS and Futures bases. This is a side box, the drawings are in mm units and the FCS angle is accurately 6 degrees.
What’s the length of the Futures fin base Surfoils?
You could have the main channel for the Futures running the whole length of the box and have two extra indents in that channel for the FCS fins - located in the appropriate locations of course.
Both bases are about the same length…here’s a pic comparison.
Even if this new box only accepted FCS and Futures, it means I choose whatever fins I want, even mix and match with both companies.
With a full channel for the FCS it would mean you could adjust the FCS fins back and forth by 1/2 inch in both directions…?
I think production wise only addressing the 2 tab FCS would be a big mistake, it turns it into a box suited for old tech. By the time you get it to market the 2 tab system will be even closer to manufacturer extinction. Yes, there will be a ton of fins in existance, but not the demand in new boards. So major builders wont see the value in it. It would become somewhat of a b-grade box, something better suited for smaller builders and backyarders.
Acqua, thanks for that tip. So do you think the FCS2 is the right one to incorporate ?
I played around with a few sets in a surfshop yesterday and I now see what others are saying about getting fins in and out. It requires strength and coordination but Its a beautiful system.
Yes, FCS2.
the dual tab fins will fit as well. The FCS2 only stick out 1/4 inch more much less than I thought. I was mistakingly looking at a quad rear. So you could essentially use a futures box… kill the grub screw area up front to accomodate extra channel length. Move screws to sides… boom.
Acqua, nice thinking !! And with the two tab fin in the open channel you get 1.5 inches of fore and aft adjustment. Just for fun.
Thanks for your help man.
It’s looking good.
And I checked out the FCS 2 dimensions, they will fit very nicely into the new box, I suppose we can’t call it Swaybox ?
Here’s a pic of all three systems overlayed… The FCS2 tabs are 6 mm thick, 14 mm deep, both tabs cover 99mm, the front hook sits out 9mm in front of the leading edge at the base.
I Luckily ran into an FCS rep today and he said that the FCS2 boxes are canted at 9 degrees.
and 5 degrees, and 3 degrees and zero degrees. for the FCSII boxes
but you are getting there…
