How do average car owners check whether the engine in their new car is actually 3.6 liters?
How do average people know whether the tire pressure gauge they bought is accurate? (Many are not.)
“If” you can accurately quantify and shape volume, it becomes one more variable you can adjust and control.
If you can shape dimensions within a few millimeters of tolerance, volume should be reasonably accurate and precise.
Accuracy and precision are only as good as your data/measurements and ability to replicate them; affected by skill, build technology and materials.
As with any product, the customer must rely on the credibilility, skill and reputation of the builder/manufacturer. Quality is dependent on accuracy and precision.
Lemat, you are so right.
all the best
With a CNC cut board, the variation is probably smaller than you think, if the “scrub” is by a patient, cautious, attentive hand. I don’t do many Marko boards, by choice (already stated why above), but the amount of foam removed via a scrub is pretty small, and could be very consistent (not that in boards on shelves it is consistent, but it can be, and probably more so than any handshaper who has never used CNC cut blanks would think).
My comment above about 1L was about a known shape, like one already from a CNC cut, where an iteration was completed and the (pro level, whether travel vid pro or CT pro) rider felt it was off by a small amount, experienced as a tiny bit of undesirable swing weight, corkiness, whatever.
I don’t think the volumes are accurate on all CNC cut boards, either. I sat on a popout sandwich-construction board by a very bigtime shaper that did not seem to me to be the volume marked on the board, but I could see an explanation for why that might have been…not an accident. The board had exceptional wave catching range for the floatation, but paddled like sh** in flat water.
None of this is to say that CNC cut boards, whether “scrubbed” by expert hands or ghostshapers who are inconsistent, are regular. We all know that when you measure a board, even by a master, usually the two sides are going to be uneven, sometimes off by 1/4".
But volume is in play, whether you want to accept it or not. It’s hard to understand why this is even a question. I mean, I do, and more than at any time during any of our lifetimes we are witnessing the inherent ability of humans to believe whatever they choose to believe, and come up with all kinds of rhetorical lines to deny anything they wish to disbelieve, but all shapers are doing volume, whether they choose to think of it that way or not.
Mahalo for all the great feedback. I was asking for a volume in liters measurement because it helps me estimate what would float me these days. (Unfortunately, work and family obligations limit my water time to once a month (or less) so even though I am physically fit, my paddling has suffered a bit from lack of water time).
Let’s say I want to scale up an original Steve Lis fish shape to 6’0" or even 6’1" (keeping the tail width at 21.5") what kind of volume in liters would we come up with.
Most surfers can “feel” whether their board has the right amount of “float.” Float is a direct function volume – buoyancy.
Re-size the Lis Fish and plug dimensions into shaping software to get an “idea” of volume. Play with width a little, but maybe a tad more emphasis on thickness to get the volume you have found works for you.
Distance between tips for a 21" width is 13". Wide point @ 36" from tail is 21".
Start with a width of 22" for a length of 6’1".
Stoneburner, thanks for your quick reply. I understand what you mean about float/bouyancy/volume. Based on recent board buying experience, I like +40 liter volume boards. In terms of paddling, even two boards with the same volume seem to have have different paddling characteristics. I am not great with numbers and shaping software, so I was wondering if someone out there who is talented in these areas could help me out with upscaling an original Steve Lis shape to 6"0" or even a 6’1" . Mahalo!
To get a re-sized LIs Fish at 6’1":
Start with the Lis Fish (Kinstle, 1977), @ length 5’5" and width 21", multiply length measurement intervals by 1.12 and width measurements by 1.048.
EDIT:
You might try nose rocker of 3.8" and tail rocker of 1.7".
Gaijinman - since we are 3 pages into this, and you seem to be asking the same question over and over, each time with a little variation, and you seem to blow right by the obvious answers
(MiWie: "I´ve built myself some fishes and measured the volume.
5’8 x 21 x 2.75 = 35l
5’10 x 21 x 2.8 = 37l
5’10 x 21.5 x 3 = 42l"
gdaddy: “I did a fishie variant a few years back with a little more curve - and at 5.8 x 21.5 x 2.75 that board hit 40L.”)
maybe you could explain how you are going to get this fish you are looking for? Are you going to shape it yourself? Are you going to buy it off the rack? Are you going to have it made by a professional shaper?
Cuz it seems to me you have enough info, at this point, for any of the above options to come up with a decent sized fish you are comfortable paddling. But maybe there is something I’m missing? Hopefully you can clarify, so everybody is on the same page.
Otherwise it feels like I’m watching a dart game in the dark, then periodically someone turns on the light when no one is looking, then turns it off real quick, and sez Nope, nobody hit the target yet, keep throwin’ boys, lol.
Gentlemen,
Please accept my apologises for any confusion or misunderstanding. I am new to this forum. I am not a shaper. I am just a surfer. I have surfed some traditional fish shapes including a 5’8" Larry Mabile Classic Keel that is now too small for me. I know a shaper who rarely shapes these days but made a classic 6’1" Steve Lis fish with no modern rocker modifications for a friend. My buddy absolutely loved this board. This shaper is kinda old-school and let’s just say that measuring boards by volume may not exactly be in his lexicon. All I know is that the Steve Lis Fish that he shaped was 6’1" with a 21.5" tail. I have never ridden this board. In fact, my friend rode it many years ago so I cannot even measure it, but it seemed like it would float me. However, since this is a one-time offer to have this shaper make me a board, I want to confirm that I can paddle it without struggling. My current shortboard has a volume of 44 liters. I hope this clears things up and again I apologize for any misunderstanding.
Mahalo. G-man
It seems unlikely that the tail width of a Lis Fis would be 21.5".
Using Gdaddy’s calculated volume of 35 L for a 5’5" Lis Fish, I did a “rough” estimate for volume of a Lis Fis that is 22" x 73" – thickness same as that by Gdaddy. [I did not use shaping software.] Volume would be “approximately” 41 L.
This one was shaped witb maximum float in mind, volume carried out to the rails and to the tail.
6’1 x 22.5 x 3 1/8 - It was 49 liters.
But it doesn’t mean a thing and won’t help you much. I and any other shaper can easily make a board with the same dims but different foil, different rails etc with 42l for example. It will ride totally different. Not only because of the volume, but due to the foil, the railshape, the volume distribution, etc.
I wouldn’t be so picky about volume. Talk to you shaper, tell him what you want it for and tell him about your fitness, the waves you ride and such. A good shaper will come up with dims that will work and that will float you. If if has 40l, 42l or 45l will be one of the least important numbers in my opinion.
I keep track of the volume of the boards I shape and ride. But just as one of many variables. Don’t be a slave to volume numbers.
That board is beautiful, MiWie.
Aloha for your kokua, everyone.
G-man