just as with 12 foot (or any other size) boards, the problem is not the equipment, it’s the attitude of the user.
Mr Slim,
I think it’s all about where you surf? If your surfing in 3 ft East Coast mush then I wouldn’t recommend the webbed gloves. There are quite a few places where I surf where the board of choice is a bigger gunnyier board. Those in the know surf these boards with great results. If you surf point of reef breaks in Southern California you might know what i’m talking about. If you surf the beach breaks then I concour with your point of view.
If you would like to come and surf with some of us old walruses, on corky mis-shapes, rubberized so they won’t drown, leash wearing weenies. I would be delighted to have you as my guest, we have plenty of 8ft boards and gloves to go around.
Sincerely,
-Jay
One more thing,
If you weigh 150 lbs, The next time your at the gym pick up one of those 45 lb Olympic plates. Walk across the room with it. Now you’ve walked in my shoes, do you think your short board would float you as well, do you think a little more foam might help? I know your thinking, fat ass loose some weight. But at 6’2" 200 lbs this is not considered fat, if you saw me you might think it be healthier if i gained a pound of two?
It’s all about equalized volume. I just finally realized how to even the playing field.
-Jay
Quote:
I’m a really mellow, easy going guy.
But you sure don’t mind calling people names and/or throwing a stereotype or two around though.
My out-of-shape-self, wearing webs, snaking the huge crowd, riding a thick old walrus sled. Are you guys digging the matching leash and nose guard theme? Circa 1984 style, haha:
I was talking to Ritchie Collins the other day out surfing, and he was wearing a modified version. He cut the top half off at the knuckles. Still had about half the webing left but he said much better to not tire you out. Kept him warm too. Other guys were wearing the dive gloves mentioned above. DR
And a goofy foot too! hell.
Quote:
Quote:I’m a really mellow, easy going guy.
But you sure don’t mind calling people names and/or throwing a stereotype or two around though.
Yeah, yeah, but it’s not like I’m making public policy or advocating everyone else to take my view or anything so don’t worry about little old me. Just relating my observations and how the sessions have played out everytime I’ve encountered these folks. No big deal and every ‘rule’ has an exception.
For better or worse, I live at a beach break that is popular with beginners and old-timers and is usually mocked by serious surfers. But I’m kind of attached to it and still surf there fairly regularly when I don’t have time to explore elsewhere. It’s not so bad. Or at least I tell myself that, and when it’s closed out I needn’t drive more than 5min to find a spot that will hold. When I have more driving time to spend, I still usually stick to spots between Ocean Beach (SF) to the north and Pleasure Point (home of the walrus) to the south. I may have sounded like a disgruntled shortboarder, but I surf various boards. I’ve been surfing my 7’4" Harbour Spherical Revolver single a lot and I surf a 9’0" Harbour Simms model ‘high-performance’ longboard too. Both are vaguely appropriate for my weight, not oversized. So when I’m talking about siting way outside and hogging waves and using ‘gear’ to an advantage rather than positioning, i’m not talking about it from the shortboard perspective, i’m just talking about those few guys who take it to the extreeme even from a longboard perspective.
I take it you guys prefer “first up” to “closest to the curl”?
Peace.
Marabout,
The wave etiquette topic was covered a couple of months ago and I think the Swaylock vibe really got lost during that thread. I think we’d easily find a fun comprise if we surfed together.
Have a Happy and Safe New Year’s.
Herb Bean
I abide by the closest to the pit rule. I usually sit outside and deep. Our waves usually have a take off spot that is regulated by square feet, not yards. But we have different sections to the reef, and hence different groups of surfers scattered throughout 50 yards of contoured rocky bottom. You got the guys sitting outside taking off on the set bombs, then you got the the inside guys picking up the more consistent but smaller waves. Big boards outside, short boards on the inside. Short boards on the outside if they can paddle and take off on the peak, but that means the equalized volume rule again. I’m not competitive, but I will not be out paddled for a wave that I have proiority on, I’d rather catch 4 bombs then 15 inbetweeners. Just a little rule I have. If you can sit deeper and out paddle me, the waves yours, and I won’t get all bitchy about it.
This philosphy might change some day when I loose the nads to charge, but for now it’s what me and my 40 plus year old crew of has-been have been doing for 15 years now.
So I sit outside and wait, lurking for the set wave.
-Jay
Where’s that left at ? Newport ? DR
scgary,
Would you please elaborate on correct/incorrect paddle stroke? I’m starting out surfing at age 41 and don’t want to take any mis-steps.
Am very fit, swimming 3 miles per week this winter & lifting weights to be ready this spring, but have no idea what “good form” is while paddling.
Michael
Hey Dronai,
Cape Hatteras - About a mile / mile and half North of the lighthouse. We always called the spot Motels.
Best,
Herb
I asked my buddy once, why they called the spot motels…he replied to me, “because there are a lot of motels there”
Anyhoo on a related topic, in the winter you can wear those 5 mill mitts. They are not webbed or anything, but if you surf really cold water you need the mitts to keep you warm. The mitts are like small oars. You definitley feel a little strain at first but after a few sessions with them you get used to it. It sucks though when you a re not surfing cold water anymore because you are used to the extra paddling ability. Can’t imagine they’d be much fun in the summer.
Surfer in best position has the right of way. To many variables to begin to argue this one. Bad for stoke.
The correct stroke technique for paddling is the same as swimming: Your hands slice into the water (thumbs down and palms out) and immediately turn (thumbs towards each other, palms back). The arm movement is somewhat like a crawl stroke in swimming. Don’t raise your elbows more than neccesary.
Quote:
The correct stroke technique for paddling is the same as swimming: Your hands slice into the water (thumbs down and palms out) and immediately turn (thumbs towards each other, palms back). The arm movement is somewhat like a crawl stroke in swimming. Don't raise your elbows more than neccesary.
There is more. No internal rotation!!! ie. stick out your arm, palm down, and rotate it from the shoulder both directions. The one that turns the back of your hand toward your centerline is internal rotation. If you paddle so you don’t do that, you should be fine. If you do that you can stress the rotator cuff which is where the problems arise. So, back of hand “same plain as face” or rotated outside that is fine. Back of hand turning toward toward centerline, not good.
If I had a dig camera I’d upload some pics…sorry. Hope the verbiage is clear enuf
Quote:
Quote:The correct stroke technique for paddling is the same as swimming: Your hands slice into the water (thumbs down and palms out) and immediately turn (thumbs towards each other, palms back). The arm movement is somewhat like a crawl stroke in swimming. Don’t raise your elbows more than neccesary.
There is more. No internal rotation!!! ie. stick out your arm, palm down, and rotate it from the shoulder both directions. The one that turns the back of your hand toward your centerline is internal rotation. If you paddle so you don’t do that, you should be fine. If you do that you can stress the rotator cuff which is where the problems arise. So, back of hand “same plain as face” or rotated outside that is fine. Back of hand turning toward toward centerline, not good.
If I had a dig camera I’d upload some pics…sorry. Hope the verbiage is clear enuf
I’ll second Dr Strange’s comments and add that the “thumbs down, palm facing out” on the “recovery” part of the stroke is not safe since it places the infraspinatus muscle (small muscle running from your back, under the acromium, attaching to your upper arm, in a position to get pinched when you reach forward causing “impingment.” which can lead to rotator cuff tears. Your hand should enter the water palm flat (middle finger first) or with the the thumb pointing slightly up, elbow slightly bent.
Also, when paddling you can’t rotate your body as you do when doing a proper swimming freestyle stroke to reduce internal rotation so when paddling a surfboard make sure you keep you elbows close to the water on the “recovery” , and bent, avoid “windmilling” or straight arm recovery because this puts an unecessary leverage load on your shoulders.
Ooops!!! make that the supraspinatus, not the infraspinatus that runs from your back to your arm, infraspinatus is the front rotator.
Hey, I’m going to check in on this one…
I’m a former college swimmer and a coach… with the bad shoulders to prove it. Avoid the common mistakes when paddling (or swimming)…
Let the “big” muscles in your back do the work on the recovery portion of the stroke. Your arm should be very relaxed as the large muscles in your back pick it up and carry it forward. If you watch olympic swimmers (especially distance swimmers), you’ll notice that their arms “hang” loosely during the recovery.
Also, you’ll have more speed by paying attention to the “Catch” part of the stroke–when your hand enters the water. Your hand should enter “first finger first” on a slight angle (everyone’s is a little different, sculling excerices will help… more on sculling later). Definitely do NOT enter with a flat hand–this generates very little power. Again, check the olympians. First finger first every time.
Your surfboard is a big help–it is a flotation device. Most shoulder injuries in swimmers come from repeatedly putting the body’s weight on the smaller muscles inside the shoulder as one arm is in the air. The arm in the water carries all of the body weight and presto–now it hurts to put on a seat belt, brush your teeth, etc.
Because of the board, you a) don’t need to kick (except on a shortboard when taking off) and b) don’t rotate your body as much. Your shoulders should still rotate some, just a little less. The rotation sets up the catch of each stroke and lengthens your pull, giving you more power and lessening the risk of injury. I see many land-based athletes with aching shoulders after a swim practice because they lack the loose, natural rotation in their shoulders. Here, try this–do a few cycles of the arm motions in freestyle with no shoulder rotation–no power, short stroke and not very comfortable! The looser, easier the rotation is, the less likely your shoulders will hurt and the faster you’ll go with minimal effort.
I’d be glad to move thish to a topic all about paddling–or, lets keep it secret. I was on my 6’0" fish a few weeks ago, and paddling circles around many longboarders. I’ve also taught a few of my old swim team friends to surf and it’s SO fun to watch them blaze past experienced surfers–even on their first day in the water.
Watching surfers paddle was a painful experience. Until I realized that most surfers really can’t paddle–which limits the number of waves they can catch–more for me! Ha ha!
…I use webbed finger gloves from time to time.
…I used them a whola bunch in the late 80s and thru most of the 90s.Apes,h2odditys,but body glove seems to have one of the better ones on the market.Tried the finger cot things but kept losing my right hand-i-cot ,so I dumped that idea…I prefer half fingered jobs,vs. the whola hand.I was cutting the tips off them the first time I used them(more dexter).Then Companies like APE,started making half-baked(half fingers) duck gloves but inclosed the thumb???Guess that’s why you don’t see them anymoe?
…Other odditys…Nike makes a webslinger swim glove,that ultimately sucks,Foe all you TEABAG LOVERS,BZ makes both I believe GREAT w/ the kitchensink sponges…the best are/…er were Otters…1.5 double nylon-neop.3/4 finger,and thumb.Wish I would have bot a couple pairs of these when I could have.I still have the original pair I got in like 86…but like the year 86,this is where they should be,due to condition,and can no longer be bought/found…sob
…epilogs…At first,they burned me out fast and the fingertips kept sliding down creating sloppy,slap-paddling…re-set them,geez.etc.
…To the beach,sssssssssssssslice… now I have HAPA APE-HANGERS! that by the end of session ,had unraveled…good use of 15 bucks.
…In the years to come my shoulders ,chest and upper back really bulked up…okay okay a little bulked up,but by the late 90s into the double zeros I noticed my right shoulder was killing me about an hour or so after surfing.Well,stupid me I never equated it to my webbed gloves,instead I blamed it on my shoulder surg./injuries.
…One day I dumped my duckgloves and felt like,while paddling, someone had severed my hands at the wrists.It only took a few sessions to get the correct feel back…and you know what???The shoulder pain disappeared…funny,huh.
…myth…Helps me paddle:…not really.It takes more time to move the gloves in the water,hence not faster than barehands or glubs w/o weps.
…myth…helps keep my handsstay warm:… 1/2 don’t do di*k for heat…and the full fingered jobs…well let’s say…a pair of playtex dish gloves will keep your hands warmer than those jobs.
…Myth…builds my body-up:…yeah,just to the point that it stars to tear it down for you.
…advantage…pivoting or redirection:…,Yeah it’s hard to beat webgloves at that task with barehands.
…advantage…poortection: …a little.
…advantage…helps in small slow weak…sh#t …whoo cares about riddin small crap.
…ADVANTAGE !!!..IF YOU WEAR THEM"(on land or in the line up) MOST PEOPLE STAY AWAY FROM YOU, CUS YOU’RE LOOKED AT AS A KOOK.
…dis’s…costs???,…or don’t fix if it aint broke.
…dis’s…pain.
…dis’s…they(all brandx that I kanoa of)fall apart way to soon for the bucks.
…Dis’s…more to clean,fix,store put on,take off,lose,keep trak of.
…I still use them on a rarity…(HB PIER).
As far as best gloves…full fingered,non-webbed,smoothies from Quicksliver or is that silver…anyjob…there 1.5mm superstrech smmoo-th exterior,and fuse bonded…no fu*kin’ string/threads/stitch to bind them or make my hands uncomfortable.Costs about 25 bucks,and are superwarm.
now isn,t that what you want to hear?..Herb
Joel, I tried webs for awhile. At first I thought, “Wow! I can really paddle faster with these things.” And I think it was true at first, but something funny happened after I had them for about 2 months. (Not funny Ha Ha…funny strange). I started catching the same number of waves as before.
After some observation I realized that my stroking speed had decreased. More resistance with the webs, made me subconsciously adjust to use the same amount of energy. I decided to stop using them, and after a short while, my stroke speed increased and I now catch or miss the same number of waves. Warmth is another issue. When the water gets to about 56 F, I’ll probably buy some neoprene’s to stay warm. Doug