Weight add drive?

Hey guys, just been thinking, i built a 5'8'' board for myself, and as i wasn't sure if i'd be able to paddle such a short board, i went with a lighter glass schedule than normal. I like my boards with a bit of heft, and this new one paddles awesome, but doesnt seem to have the drive/momentum as my old heavily glassed fish. Its got keel fins BTW. Its great for "flicking" around, and it is fast in trim, but i miss the feeling of popping up and driving down the line from take off. The new board also has a pulled in tail, which i think may add to a loss of drive compared to the wide swallow of my old fish.

 

Thoughts??

weight will allow a board to gain momentum which ends up as speed  ( but they lack responsiveness and are slow til the momentum has been gained )

drive ( which is also speed ) comes from rocker ( or lack of it ) and fins   ---easy to learn when you remove the fins from a high rockered board....where is my down the line projection gone ???  

 

Rail length and curve (straight) also affects drive.

mass x speed= momentum

Heavier boards maintain speed more through flats all things being considered equal.  Another way heavier boards can help is not flexing and distorting as much.  I hate boards too light, especially in big waves, and I like big waves.  

Duck dive, no FFFFF!#@#$@$kkkk dive.

Weight in the nose adds significant drive.  Just a few ounces is totally noticeable.

I feel the weight of my wooden boards when I am carrying them to the beach; however, when I'm in the water I really don't notice the weight.  I have two wooden short boards: A 6'2" chambered balsa single fin, and a 6'8" redwood HWS.  Both boards are about 16 pounds.  The 6'"2 has a really flat rocker, and excels in small surf.  The 6'8" board really shines in surf over head high.  I don't notice any hesitation initiating turns with either of them.  When I switch back to my PU/PE boards I feel like I'm riding a noodle.  It feels like more energy is lost in the turn -- if that makes sense.

Now... I do agree about the momentum argument when you are talking about really heavy boards.  I have a 10' long 40 lb. solid balsa board that definitely feels different from my other longboards.  Catching a wave on it is more like a magic carpet ride.  It determines the direction that you will go, and you are just along for the ride.

 

 

"I took the wooden fish out for the maiden voyage this morning.

 

2.5 ft hightide waves at Winkipop, slight SE onshore but still very rideable… if you have a wooden board!

 

Legrope attached, a light rub with some cool water sex wax, a pre surf photo and I was out there.

 

I spent the first 5 minutes adjusting to the extra width and weight (6.4kg), but it paddled well and was still easy to duck dive.

 

A shoulder height set wave comes at ‘uppers’, I was a bit too deep and late and managed to nose dive, albeit in a graceful renaissance-retro wooden board kind of way.

Next wave I was in peak position, took off and…FLEW.

Mowing through sections the 2 guys on regular shortboards were struggling with. The full-speed trim all down the line and ended up at ‘lowers’ a good 150m away.

I spent another hour trading waves with one of the older regulars, feeling my way through the characteristics of the board. Any surface bumps were made negligible and before too long i had made a few tentative off -the-top manouvers.

 

I think it will loosen up in turns once I can get a better feel for the extra weight-induced momentum of the board

 

The only time I thought I had pushed it too far was midway through an end section closeout floater.

 

Thinking to myself. Did Jensen design the board for this kind of stuff ?? And quietly praying I wasn’t going to put my feet through the deck on landing, it air dropped off the lip onto the flats without missing a beat.

 

So I celebrated with a post surf photo, a coffee from Swell Cafe and am hoping to make a paulownia mini-simmons 5’5" sometime over summer."

Hope you guys are getting waves.

Cheers

Mark

 

 

 

 

heya swied,

the experimental 9’ wood + plant fiber HWS hybrid i’m about to glass currently weighs approximately 20kgs, probably matching the heft of your 10’ solid balsa. re your comment above on board direction (italics mine), is that a good thing for you ? or something you’d rather have more control over?

i know LBs are supposed to glide effortlessly— moreso with HWS— but the weight/length/momentum (safety!) issues of my first build worries me no end. would appreciate your thoughts on this. thanks

cheers,

I've posted this before, but its pertinent to this thread.  Surfboard builder Roger Hall on the weight of his wood boards:

"...I had this idea of making a wooden board for quite a long time, and I'd been collecing agave stalks for quite a while, and had a little bit of a stash and I thought, well ok, I'm gonna make this wooden board and just as a little bit of an experiment and to give the project a bit of duration I decided to copy this super-lightweight foam board (that I really liked) out of agave wood  and I really put a lot of effort into making a very faithful copy.  And I was actually blown away that this wooden board could be so much heavier than - it was relatively light for a wooden board - but it was a lot heavier than this superlight high performance longboard I'd been riding, and I was actually blown away at how well the board went. 

"In so many ways it surprised me - in ways I never ever dreamt.  The first thing was I didn't even really know if it was gonna float and so i took it to the beach - wood floats but hey - it did float, and it paddled great.  The first thing I noticed was it duck dived better than my foam board and I kinda thought well  maybe thats just a quirky flukey thing y'know  it just seemed every time I went under a wave it duck dived better than my foam board and I thought, whats going on here?  I put it down to fact that it didn't have the same corky points as a polyurethane foam blank.  It just seemed to sit under the wave out of the turbulence for just a little bit longer and then it popped up.  So that was something I never would have dreamed.  The next thing I noticed paddling into the waves the board just seemed to have more motor - it had this really nice sure-footed feel to it as you dropped down into the waves, and it was always there for you at the bottom.

"So right from paddling the board to my first takeoff I was discovering things just bang bang bang - and it really surprised me, and I found out all kind of things, and I rode that board for two years nonstop and then you know I just had to get off it because as a shaper I wasn't experimenting any more - its kinda like Oh I don't need another board y'know so I had to stop riding it.  The other thing I did at that time was I was so intrigued by the weight and how could this board be so fast and lively compared to the foam one I copied.  So the next board I made I deliberately made it considerably heavier  what I did was I made it out of balsa wood but what I did was I put hardwood rails on it, really heavy hard wood rails, and the board was heavy, but it was a very progressive shape, lot of rocker in it,

"Something I found you know, you drop into a wave you lay it on rail to do your bottom turn, and what the board did was it just flipped onto its rail really quickly, because the weight was in the rail - and then it held a really nice line, when you you wanted to come out of the turn and go onto the other rail it flipped onto that rail - I use the word flip but its really smoothe but really quick - so from that time on I never bothered about making another lightweight surboard again.  Even when I make my foam boards I always say to my glasser, don't worry about making it light.  I've already predetermined theyre not gonna be light.  I either put hardwood stringers or a big piece of wood or mulitple stringers - and when I say multiple I don't mean 3 or 4, I like to put 7 or 8 or 9 - get lots of wood in there!  Or what I'll do is I'll put wood rails on the board so even my foam boards are kind of almost wood boards.

"So what Ive found is that weight is really a powerful design ingredient.  I think it started disappearing from surfboards in the 50's, and we've pretty much been on this one way track of getting the weight out of surfboards and out of surfing, and we've had to bring it back for tow boards, and for recreating old school noseriders and stuff.   But apart from that, its really one way - not in every situation, I mean  light is right - but I've found that weight is a very very potent design element and I think the road ahead is going to see weight come back into surfing, and this wooden board thing that's happening is going to really help to turn a lot of people on to that."

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Weight in the nose adds significant drive.  Just a few ounces is totally noticeable.

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How about adding a 4oz patch to the bottom of my board for the first 12"?? This sounds intriguing.

 

Some interesting info here. I always felt stable on my heavy fish, and i always thought the weight was one of the reasons it was so drivy ( apart from a straight tail and keels! ). Might have to make myself another hefty 6x66 fish. Miss that board:(

 

Paul, sounds like a stoked customer!!

http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/stories/benfordham/651973/the-storm-riders

Check 7:30 and 15 seconds or so beyond...

[quote="$1"]

Weight in the nose adds significant drive.  Just a few ounces is totally noticeable.

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Greg, i couldnt wait to get back to work and find something to stick on, so i glassed a 5' x 7'' patch of 6oz to the nose of my board. Im guessing ( blindly ) the patch was 1-2oz? and maybe 1-2oz of resin?. Anyway i surfed it today in waist - random head high waves, and didn't find myself needing to step forward to get the nose down, and it felt more "natural" for me to surf, like my old heavy keel fish. I have no idea if the weight had anything to do with it, but it felt much better. Weird to think a few ounces can make a difference. I'll keep surfing it and see if i didn't just have a good day haha.

I may even add another piece, as i think it would be just right with just a touch more, but i'll wait til i've surfed it a few more times.

 

 Back in The 70's a few Surfers in Hawaii were experimenting with nose weight on their boards. The one connect that was tried was molding small cups in the nose foam and adding  lead weights such as 2oz 4oz or more as needed.  I can't recall the names surfers and shapers,however they were name surfers of that time. 

Rather then glass more weight on your board why not tape or glue some lead weight on to the nose? This way if it's a mistake it would be easy to correct.

hi, timely subject for me at the moment, i made a board from the ixps foam ,glassed with 6 oz bottom and 6/4 deck so did/nt try to make it light , the board is 6 8 x20 1/2 x 2 5/8 , it weighs around 7 lb so is quite light for its size but just lacks drive from the start ,

it drops down ok but once out on the face it will just slow right down , i have had a theory about weight versus volume for a while and although i was/nt really thinking along those lines when i made the board it sort of goes along with what imy thoughts were ,

if you take an average short board of around 25 litres, maybe 6ft 1 x 18 1/4 or so it will weigh around the 5 3/4 to 6 lb range  /so somewhere around 4 litres per lb would be a good average ,

my board weighs 7lb so a good volume would be around 28 litres but its probally nearer 40 litres,so the weight to volume ratio is well out of sync ,

maybe this is why some of the surf tech boards suffer from the same lack of drive?,

i have cut some lead patches out and tapped them tp the nose of the board in the hope that it will provide some forward motion when i get out onto the race of the wave again , 

i had a quick wave or two a few days back but did/nt get a proper wave to see if has made any differance, pete

The last board I built was a couple months ago - singlefin piggy thing at 7’0".  Lots of width, big ass, 54 liters but the weight was just a bit over 7lb.    I surfed it a couple times and it was okay but it felt too light for the way I was trying to surf it.  I went back and added another layer of 4oz on the bottom and the extra weight smoothed it out.  I have a feeling that I might have been even happier had I added to the deck, too.  

 

But that’s a singlefin where I’m letting the board do most of the work.  Had I set the board up as a quad to be surfed more aggressively off the tail I think the original weight would have worked out fine for that.   

Artz,

Hynson did several boards with a deckside nose cavity, to hold various weights of fishing sinkers.  Used double faced tape, to hold them in, as I recall.

Artz, greg suggested that to me via pm, though im not due back at work, so i just glassed the patch in to try it straight away. Hope to surf it tomorrow again and see if i cen feel a difference again.

Thanks Bill sounds Like a Hynsen thing The Guy was always experimenting I also recall his thick Dolphin  inspired fins from around 74 or 75

buggered if i know . its just a surfboard. surfboard riding is the slowest of all board sports realy isnt it . if you want to go fast, go snowboarding and you can safely do hacks on 40 foot transitions at 60km to 70km an hour and with no one else about.and if your really into it take a helicopter up there… only thing i care about with surfing is there is no other people in the water ( especially show pony, label wearing blowhards that love talking it up) and the waves are peeling with at least a 3 to 4 meter face hight and i could be riding a 1970s single fin for all i care