bill, have you talked w/ an attorney or someone who might know whether your fin is something that could even be patented or protected?
i don’t doubt the performance reports at all, but if only the foil is altered and the fin doesn’t “look” much different, is that enough to have a patent granted? if you have some material or process w/ building it, i’d guess that can be protected at least.
i’m no lawyer and have no idea, but it seems like i’ve heard similar problems arise on shark tank haha.
if you are aware that your design can be protected (and have said so already), then this post is completely worthless other than to say good luck!
The fin looks very different up close. The changes are not in the texture, though that can be added too. There is no use of this foil in any hydronamic setting, that I am able to find. Sailboats, boats, boat rudders, sail boards, surfboards, surfboard fins, none of them. So, I’m confident that it is able to be patent protected. Thank you for your comments.
A reasonable slice is all I’d be after. My expectation is that ALL fins, in the future, will feature this unique foil. Especially once the fin performance is experienced.
One other thing to check, if you haven’t already. Go the PTO site and search their patent database for fin patents and similar designs. The PTO has gotten more difficult in allowing patents that aren’t suffciently different from existing designs. They used to be worded in broader terms, capturing most attempts to create something novel but in the same genre. Now they’re more specific, and that’s wherre a patent attorney is useful.
First thing is to check what’s already patented. You’d be surprised. I came up with something for the mountain biking community some years ago, that I’d not seen advertised anywhere, and yet there was a patent for that specific idea of mine. Still not in production, but patented.
Ron, did the same here on the Australian patents, trademarks and design site and there’s tonnes of similar yet different patents, one with “undulations” and “ridges” over the foil covering straight and curved versions. Seems like a wide sweep to cover all variations.
You can get an “innovation patent” for few hundred bucks . Signaturies are Aus ,US Europe , Japan and China (yes , China !)…the upshot is , once you record and pay for the patent , any similar product produced and exported into any signatury countries automatically becomes the legal property of the patent holder , and any $$$ profit made from selling the product. A full patent is not required unless you intend to litigate for thieving or copying of a patented product… One of the biggest positives with this sytem is that the chances of ever getting charged with court costs of litigation are between remote and zilch , for the legal patent holder…only two main criteria = it MUST be a true innovation and it MUST be original , and never done by anyone before.
What comes to mind when i think of efficient foils is a moth sailboat. You’ve probably never seen one before, very uncommon. Only about 50 hulls or so in the states. They are an R class boat and fast as all hell. 40 knots downwind in 25 knot breeze fast. The foils are powerful enough to lift a 30kg boat out of the water and a 170lb (me) sailor out of the water in 5 knots of breeze. The foils are only about 1/2 thick and hollow. Check them out.
Maybe fin makers could borrow some ideas from the new zealanders on this one.
Incorrect . Going it alone is advisable if you have the financial means to set up an efficient manufacturing facility to supply your target market . Any lawyer will strongly advise you to “see a lawyer” , and that lawyer will most probably be him or one of his associates…(lol)
Incorrect . Going it alone is advisable if you have the financial means to set up an efficient manufacturing facility to supply your target market . Any lawyer will strongly advise you to “see a lawyer” , and that lawyer will most probably be him or one of his associates…(lol)
kayu, So how do you think Bill will proceed ? If its reallly a great idea then Bill could go it alone or with a small fin company and he will get offers soon enough.
I suppose its one thing to go “hat in hand” to the big companies asking for a deal and another thing completely to have them come to him !
Here’s another idea from the pool of old patents Ive scoured, I can’t take photos off the PDF’s but its a series of indented chevrons along the max thickness of the fin.
That’s Bill’s call I think…if he was 25 years old , he’d probably roll his sleeves up and make a few sqillion bucks - maybe he has no interest in workin’ his clacker out these days…who knows ?..(lol)
Kayu, you never know how much ‘get up and go’ Bill has, he might just call contacts in the surf industry and start a revolution. The best ideas I got from Bill were his Twin Singles and the outside twin fins on the corners of a square tail. He’s certainly a long term innovator and a unique mind in this arena. If only everyone could put as much effort into advancing design…
Multifins said to me years ago - create a market and we’ll make your fins, 6% royalties. I guess I was too lazy and not well known enough.
So if Bill does all the work and creates a market and a need for these fins, then a big company may be interested. 6% royalties is pretty good average if you are happy to sit back and enjoy the ride.
Hey Bill, I really hope you get it happening, good luck.
Wildy, that’s interesting to know about the 6%, that would be of the **net **not gross. Figuring that the 6% is not of the retail price but what the fin company sells them for, then Bill might only make a few dollars per set. Maybe only $2 or $3.
However…multiply that $2 by possible sales of a few thousand the first year, maybe tens of thousands in the many years following that the patent covers and Bill could have a very comfortable income for his efforts. A Change in any of those figures could result in a big windfall for Bill if his idea can be used in other applications in other industries.
I think Simon Anderson said that he’d like a $1 donation from every thruster that people have bought.
If I had something like you are talking about I would make the fins myself. Make them to fit existing boxes. If they are as good as you say you should be able to find someone to lend you the money to set up a shop.Once you get em out on the market you should be good to go.
get a patent and make the fins. Screw all of these other people. You don’t need em.
Start small and keep the quality very high. It’s the USA man…land of opportunity. You can do it Bill.
The answer to your question, is no. I’ve set it aside, much as I did the twin singles, back in 1970. Thirty years later, in 2000, the concept had not yet been stumble upon by anyone. So, I converted some existing boards to that system which demonstrated the performance superiority. I’m satisfied in knowing what a significant breakthrough it (the secret foil) is, and also satisfied to keep it under my hat. I’d like to see the fin get produced. But I’m not in a charitable mood. It won’t be given away. I’d love to supply the fin to a lower ranked pro, and watch him kick ass with it. But, alas, that would require vision and a leap of faith. Both are in general short supply. I may modify a gun fin, for someone to use in some serious waves this winter. We’ll see how it goes.
