what happened to Taj and f wire in Hawaii?

Well I have a pupe that’s 6 years old and still ok…I’m careful with it…and it’s easy to fix when it is dinged

Silly - re -read my posts!

I also have a balsa comsand …pretty much same dim’s as my pupe…I like it alot…(altho’ i’ve owned better pupe boards)…haven’t dinged it yet.but when I do - it’ll be a pain to fix …pro’s cons

I agree…taj is one helluva surfer…so I was wondering …why so poor in Hawaii…if the new tec is soo much better?

Yes…not much hype on the FW website…but there have been other claims…notably on this board

Silverback,

Poor you. You are burdened with a clarity of both vision, and understanding. I think the above points, and observations, you have made, are on target. You will be punished accordingly! But keep it up.

Actually there’s going to be alot of guys on them soon as they become more available such as through Barnfield whether they dump their current shaper and switch over like Taj did would be the big question.

There’s alot of Marko going over here so EPS/epoxy is very big even though it’s being talked about much. AI was competing on 4lb EPS/Epoxy Arakawa boards 2 years ago. Eric was monkeying around with unglassed XPS when he was at Surfco. There’s alot of tech happening but PU/PE still wins cause it’s cheap and people are chasing the dollar more than worrying about the ecology here. The northshore mob changes boards like they do girlfriends, there’s always another “name” shaper on the sidelines trying to whisper sweet nothings in their ear.

I’d love to some big bloke like Marcus Hickman, Tom Dosland, or Mikey Bruneau on a Firewire or any of the Kauai gang.

If Chava or Kai Borg were to switch from Mayhem/BYB over to Firewire… that would be statement.

Meat and potato guys that’s who’d I’d like to see carving up on one…

With the selection of PU/PE shapers here to choose from versus the folks they have shaping these Firewires it’s going to be an uphill battle unless they start franchising out the technology like Bert originally said to guys like Aipa, Arakawa, Tokoro, Minami, Pang, Bushman, Rawson, JC, BK, Lopez and all the other mass producers of board craft. I predict this to be the next move, Nev can’t carry it all on his rep alone.

I couldn’t give a rats what Taj or anyone on the northshore rides - different skill level, different waves.

I have a PU/PE minigun that I use a couple of time a year - it’s good for getting in early, taking steep drops and going straight in big powerful waves. For everything else I ride my compsands - they do improve my surfing. The improvements come from design features made possible by the properties of the construction. I can go wider, thinner with less tail rocker but the boards go rail to rail the same as a narrower PU/PE with more rocker, so I get a better paddle performance ratio than with PU/PE. I like the responsiveness of the perimeter stringer and the lightness but with natural feeling flex.

Try a Firewire or build your own.

All this talk about PU/PE boards and no one has mentioned how different the PU is from our Clark days. This is not the same PU. I have shaped since the 60's and I have never seen this strong yet flexible, super white, insanely dense (you can mill way into the blank with very little variations in densities), and great flex with both lam and bass stringers. I have been shaping the Rhyno and the new Bennett's. I'm amazed if your comparing to the PU of past your not comparing apples to apples.

Maybe the Aussies had competition that’s why the foam is so much different and better than Clarks! More elbow greese if your a wimp use a drum! But hey this is new territory and I’m stoked.

silverback

in the unlikely event of a ding on my compsands

it TAKES LITERALLY FIVE MINUTES TO FIX THE DING AND GO SURFING

with my boards

how easy is that

i can break one (never happened yet)

peel the skin and stick it back on without adding more than 100 grams

i can peel the skins off and old compsand and stick them on a new one

if taj wasnt happy on the north shore

its simply a matter of not having one dialed in for those conditions yet

a composite board can built as light ,heavy ,stiff or flexi as you so desire

you know the reasons why the new tech is better

why does it need to be repeated.

bring your board over and lay it down next to one of mine

we can jump on them both and see which one survives.

did i mention environmentally friendly

if people are not convinced after building and riding and abusing a compsand

they are simply not building them correctly

the added performance is just a bonus

They just got some firewire boards in the Local Motion shop in Waikiki…yesterday or the day before. A mate of mine saw them…said they just got em.

Roger

I think that one thing that compsand construction offers is the possibility to achieve a greater range in design as compared to pu/pe. pu/pe is great if you're already getting what you want from your board. But for some that isn't possible because of the limitations that pu/pe have. For example, you can only thin out a pu/pe to a certain extent before it begins to become unusable. For a compsand, you can thin it out much more and it would still retain the strength desired to be ridable. Flex and durability are only part of the variables. I'm not knocking pu/pe. I like the crisp lines of the foam when shaping and the very intimate feel of board vs. shaper that I get. But I can't pretend that heel dents don't bug me and knowing that I can make a more durable and more customized board. 



As for Taj's Firewire, in the interview with Bert (Surfer Mag) he says that he basically copied Taj's pu/pe into compsand form because that's what taj wanted. He wasn't keen to it because he knew that compsand construction requires a different idea for design but in order for Taj to ride it, he had to give what the surfer wanted. Maybe that's the reason for the lackluster performance, maybe not. Who knows?

I hope this doesn’t become a pu/pe vs. compsand debate as that would get us nowhere really fast…

Cheers,

Rio

generally, heavier boards work better in heavier waves, Why do you think the “toe-in guys” put weights in their boards. Once you get an ultralight into a wave with real substance they fade quickly.

Oneula,

I definitely agree with you that surfing pipe is more about getting barrelled and surviving. I just think that when surfing a wave as critical as that that you’re going to want every bit of help available to you. I found the post of yours that I referenced earlier in this thread, it was about surflight, but still about alternative tech. You said, “Took off sideways a couple of time and even stood up on one knee half way down the face still in total control.NO matter what awkward position I placed myself in the board just forgave it and acted like it knew what I wanted to do…” That definitely sounds like a nice benefit when surfing a wave of consequence. Ever seen pictures of a guy doing a HUGE bottom turn at pipe right before he pulls up under the lip? Definitely not a spot you’d want a board to lag in. If you could get a board to project you further out of a bottom turn, it could have the potential to save your @$$ in such situations and get you into waves that you maybe would’ve had to straighten out and miss on a poly.

Guys are doing new maneuvers at pipe and they want to go further, they also want boards that will take them there. Whether these advances come from new tech or new shapes they probably couldn’t care less. This years Pipemasters final Slater did a couple huge turns, Andy did a pretty insane floater. Try telling Jamie O’Brien that the only thing he can do at Pipe is survive. These guys want more from their boards and so do I, I want rider error to be the only excuse I have. Maybe that’s utopian, but I really believe that’s why we are on this message board and why guys will sell a board after a few surfs if they thinks it’s a dog.

Just because it hasn’t been tuned right for that wave, yet, doesn’t mean that the potential isn’t there. Maybe all this and more could be achieved through the rider changing how he rides. Then again, maybe not. Is it worth it to re-invent the wheel if that new wheel could be much more efficient? After all, we still have all those beautiful old wheels to fall back on :0)

Wouldn’t it be easier to admit it is not the best board in the world, and may be better for some surfers…in some conditions…instead of making fun of all the surfermag guys saying they will be mowing yards and claiming firewires cure cancer?

I would imagine someone of enough quality to be named “shaper of the year”, would be able to make a board that could be ridden by their 1 big team rider at contests in hawaii. If you don’t agree something is wrong with that situation you are completely blind and/or on glue.

Can atleast 1 swaylock diehard please atleast attempt to admit they might have jumped the gun stating the board was better than sliced bread.

“pupe” boards are for kooks!

Unless you ever want to surf in hawaii…

well

you’ll have to admit

that the most radical folks in surfing today

especially at that spot

are the sponges

those guys are doing things

no one would think twice about trying on a surfboard

I want to AI hit the lip on a 15 footer at pipe and come over in the lip land backwards or maybe do a flip in between and land it and make like it’s no big deal.

Sponges are doing it all day long…

Maybe front side I’d give something like pipe a go on a surflight design

I know the brazilians and a host of others have used them there and in Tahiti

In fact the board I bought got dinged at Chopes and the guy brought it back to Jim to get the skin repaired.

All he did was spray on another coat of urethane

like they do in those android movies like Bicentenial man…

now that’s how you fix a high tech board…

… Don’t you think its a little bit unfair to say that firewires arent that good just because Taj didnt win Pipe on them.

the top 44.

43 surfers riding pu/pe

1 surfer riding compsand

look at the odds of someone winning on a pu/pe.

Good point!

Hmmm…scenario - Mr Anderson on a thruster…everyone else on twinnies/singles…just not fair is it - I mean imagine the chances of him winning?

It’s not a convincing argument…if the tec is that much better then it should give an insane advantage…instead…most people who’ve ridden them compare them to a normal pu/pe performance wise…

Don’t get me wrong…I ride one out of choice…but the main benefits i feel are in durability …i’m talking performance here…the claims made for improved performance were extravagant to say the least

Quote:

It’s not a convincing argument…if the tec is that much better then it should give an insane advantage…instead…most people who’ve ridden them compare them to a normal pu/pe performance wise…

Don’t get me wrong…I ride one out of choice…but the main benefits i feel are in durability …i’m talking performance here…the claims made for improved performance were extravagant to say the least

With respect to the above comments, which specific product are you referring to Silverback?

ps - Does anyone know if Taj has EVER done well on the NS?

Who is likely to win the following heats?

4ft Trestles

Taj v. Pancho

8ft Sunset

Taj v. Pancho

Here’s a great idea! Lets get rid of the pro surfers and let the surfboards, by themselves, ride the waves for scores. Yeah, new tour…it could be called the “Sways Board Tech Tour”. Instead of Clothing sponsors, we could use material and process sponsors. “Get your Resin heeah”

Who’s with me?!

Quote:

… Don’t you think its a little bit unfair to say that firewires arent that good just because Taj didnt win Pipe on them.

the top 44.

43 surfers riding pu/pe

1 surfer riding compsand

look at the odds of someone winning on a pu/pe.

Not only that but don’t you think the guy who won did so because of his performance, irrelevant of his board’s foam type? These guys are so talented they could surf circles around you on a garbage tin lid!!!

Dave - talented…yes…so is T burrow…so you’d think any advantage (as touted) would confer superior performance…

As for the bin lid…well if you put Andy irons on an inferior board…he would still surf well…but not as well doncha think? I don’t think the board itself is irrelevant…

silverback, I would venture to say I think you are correct, the leap from Pu/Pe to Firewire doesn’t appear to be comparable to the leap from 2 fins to 3. Taj did marginally better this year, hard to even argue the board was necessarily responsible. Its also hard to argue the board was holding him back.

I don’t think many people really thought that was the case. I mean, there has not been a substantial advancement in surfing technology in 25 years that gave anyone a “significant” performance edge. I’m not arguing that guys could ride on 1982 boards and win at Pipe, just that the year to year changes over time haven’t given anyone since then a “Simon Anderson” moment. I mean, what do we really have since 1982? Single foiled fins, concaves, removable fin systems, lighter blanks, stronger resins, boards getting 3/8" thinner and 2 pounds lighter. Yes it all adds up, but it ain’t a lot of improvement over 25 years, compare to the previous 25 years! The board 50 years ago was made of solid or hollow wood, with a single D fin, and was 10 feet long, Foam wasn’t common yet, the modern fin shape wasn’t invented, no down rails…

But you know, for the competition style market, if you put out a board with similar dimensions, equal in ride, but lighter, it will command a substantial market share because equal in performance BUT LIGHTER matters a lot in that market.

I’m more impressed with their efficiency in technique. No one else has made sandwich boards domestically with few enough man hours per board to make it work in the market. They really seem to have gotten the machines nicely integrated into the process.

My thoughts are more that he didn’t ride it at pipe. So that whole…“taj rides it because he really digs the boards…not cause the paycheck” sounds a little off. Obviously he’s not either %100 sure on either the shapes, or the technology. Or he wouldve ridden it right? He opted out of riding his shaper of the years new technology on the “ultimate proving grounds” and instead ride his webber.

It has nothing to do with how taj has done on the NS. He’s 4th in the world.

Flat out if you come in saying you have an indestructable surfboard that is all tricked out and better than the old crap, win shaper of the year, and have an army bigger than Canadas running swaylocks…your technology damn well better be leaps and bounds ahead of it’s time.