what is going on with APS3000?

Industry Talk
201

Again not the truth , Jimmy. You are a director in DSS (trustee for the DSS Trust), a distribution company. The company started trading december 2004 and seized trading may 2006. You had and still have a 25% share in DSS. You charged DSS for the software license for each machine, remember? After DSS seized trading-with your full support- you supplied the software to my Family Trust and you charged my family trust for the license for your program per machine. You are not and have never been part, partner, shareholder or director of my Family Trust, the company that sold the APS3000. I “cook” the books of my family trust according to the rules and regulations of the Australian tax office who audit me.

The books of the DSS trust and DSS Pty Ltd have always and ever only been done by a professional bookkeeper and an accountant and the necessary documentation has always been forwarded to you.

Again, Jimmy, stick to what you can support and proof.

202

203

I’ve been reading Swaylocks off and on and this thread has me fascinated. I created an account to ask a few questions.

First, Miki - get some one to proofread your posts. I understand english isn’t your first language, you’re german aren’t you? And please, no more poems.

But when exactly did the APS3000 machine become the Aku Shaper machine? Which machine do current owners have? Prior to the split, according to the Aku Shaper website…

http://web.archive.org/web/20060202234620/www.aps3000.com/history/history.html

The machine was all Miki’s work and ingenuity according to you. Suddenly Miki is out and you have a “new” machine overnight? When did you make it? Did you develop it in secret or is it just Miki’s machine that he continued to refine? The machines that Rickard removed from the factory; were they Miki’s “old” APS3000 design or this brand new “Aku Shaper” machine?

The pictures on your website just shows a metal frame. Is that your new machine? Has it gone through the R+D that the machine Miki created and designed did? How come it took Miki years to make his and you “created” yours practically overnight? It sure sounds a lot different, what with those steel legs and all…

Would it be alright for Miki to take your software program, change the background color and fonts and say, “Hey look at this computer program I wrote last last week!”?

I also want to hear more about the second set of books you accused Miki of keeping - remember “think Enron?” If Miki really did this - that’s awful. Was he your CFO too? If he created the machine, handled the money AND traveled to set them up, then what did the rest you do?

But more to the point, if APS3000/Aku Shaper is a house of cards like Enron turned out to be, who in their right mind would buy your machine now? Enron disappeared overnight!? Who is going to want to give you a big deposit for your “all new” Aku Shaper machine when no one has actually seen it, it hasn’t been tested like Miki’s machine, and you’re comparing your own company to Enron?

Right now, I just shape boards for myself, but it would be nice to know someone with one of these. Hoist a pint and wait for my finished blank to slide into my arms. At least with two companies making what sounds like an identical product marketed at the same group, the prices might come down.

204

There are at least a few of these machines in SoCal.

I’m not buying the machine, but will be using the shapers software

and then getting my blanks milled. I like how they will support

the garage shaper with one-off’s at an affordable price…somewhere

around $26-36 range for a machine shape.

From that perspective, I dont think I need to know anything more about

this mess…and it is a common story with startups, greed is ususally involved,

and the need in some cases to dilute present shareholders to promise others, that are

needed to be brought in ,an equitable stake.

However, if I was interested in purchasing a CNC machine it would all be very relevant

in the short term.

However, Im just looking to get my blanks a “haircut”.

205
Quote:

"There are at least a few of these machines in SoCal.

I’m not buying the machine, but will be using the shapers software

and then getting my blanks milled. I like how they will support

the garage shaper with one-off’s at an affordable price…somewhere

around $26-36 range for a machine shape. "

I’m new here, that’s supposed to look like a quote above. That is awesome though! You take the free program, design your board, email or thumbdrive it the facility and in 15 minutes they have your shape done! Does anybody in Santa Barbara/SLI area have one?

206

your one lucky guy!

…theres one in Ventura

http://www.aps3000miki.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28&Itemid=49

207
Quote:

There are a couple features there that you don’t have yet. We are almost finished with the final details of those. If we don’t have an upgrade in 10 working days, feel free to blow up my inbox, as we’ve been meaning to get this out for a little while now, small kine side tracked lately.

And no, there are no intentions to hijack your computer, add a virus or anything of that nature. Hopefully just make the board design process a little easier.

I will post to this site the details of the new features when we do that.

Jimmy,

I haven’t talked with you since all this began. My customers are stoked and things are going well.

In regards to the software I would like to know if the current version and/or the new updated version will contain any features that Miki provided input on or thought up. While he was here setting up my machines he emailed you guys (actually Ralph), from my living room, some very useful feature ideas that I really liked and am looking forward to.

Also you know how keen I was on 3D modeling, even before the Feb 9 shocker I began using Shape3D to preview boards in 3D view prior to cutting with some of my customers and have found it very useful. There is actually a print feature that is nice too. Will the update coming within the next ten days or future updates after that change the free versions file format so it will no longer open in Shape3D (encrypted like the machine owner version)? Or will it remain the same?

Thanks,

Chris

208

Jimmy.

       i wont enter in the fracus re who is right or wrong here...

im a firm beliver in the future, and wrongs tend to right themselves by karma or other means.

my questions are serious from my point of view and im sure by meanshapes post there are others who have these concerns too.

i use the APS3000 software every day and try to have 40+ boards a week cut via the APS3000 machines in tweed heads, my family and my employees family all rely of this weekly occurence. what does the future hold for the current software we use? will akushaper create compatible files that the current cutting machines at tweed use. should i keep blocking software updates so that my current status quo is not comprimzed? i have a new computer coming soon, do i download akushaper on it and will files i create on it open on my older aps3000 computer? can you make clear the future for us software users as we havent had an email like you said the machine owners recieved.

209

Not sure if it has any significance—

I did notice the terms/conditions of the original software and the new dowload has different verbage. I have a printed copy of both versions for my bathroom deep thought reading.

When this first happened I down loaded the S3D free trial. They have made great improvements as I tinkered with it 3 years ago. If they can import and convert APS files that would be unreal. But I recently learned that takes the cooperation of all the software developers as updated /changes to the software can hinder the import feature. I could be wrong but thats what I was told.

Sometimes we just have to find the humor and irony in things…

210

well well …

hasnt this got interesting …

two men say there jesus , one of them must be wrong …

having dealt with the 3 guys originally in the mix to develop the APS concept , namely Miki , Nev and Jimmy …

all i can say , is , sometimes things dont turn out like we all anticipated , my experiences with Nev bare that one out …

im seeing , jimmy’s story unfold here , ive heard Nevs and Mikis in person …

but regardless of what ever the plan was , or how everyone wanted it to turn out , somebody has to hold the fort …

the driving force behind the whole thing was Miki …

no Miki , no machine …

Nev came in wanting to sell the machine …

Mike came in wanting to build the machine …

Jimmy came in wanting to make the machine cut the design acurately …

who had the vision , that made the others want to come in , add and push that vision forward ??

yep the guy holding the fort , the guy with the original vision …

Miki …

yet all the other players wanted there fair share …

like hey , wheres my 25% ?

the reality is the bills have to get paid , materials brougt , people paid , the rent , the power , whats left ?

thats the real figure …

Miki was the guy that held it all together …

Jimmy , i know exactly what Miki said about being the mastermind behind the tech of a well known high profile brand , also why it was said …

it was the most logical way of dealing with one of the other circling sharks at the time …

Miki soon that gave shark a serious near fatal blow ,and it scurried off hungry …

from where im standing , the sharks are pretty easy to spot …

regardless of who feels like a victim here , its pretty clear to me , that someone has taken someone elses vision and claimed it as there own …

there is a photo higher up in this thread , and it pretty much sums up the same reality …

x,y,z, a,b,c, and e ,

that makes 7 … 7 things the guy with the original vision knows …

your also now holding the joystick Jimmy , so lets hope you know how to use it , dont press the red button …

regards

BERT

211

Jimmy stated:

Miki has made claims on many ‘ideas’ that are over statements to say the least.

One example, he has told me that he was integral in a blank recipe of a major blank maker and the idea for the glue was his idea. But when this came up in a conversation I had with that blank maker, it was made clear that details such as those about his recipe are shared with nobody. I remember where I was when I heard that.

One more example, there is a surfboard company that has become a household name in which Miki claims their technology is his idea. Details of this have been shared with me from both sides and it was put best when a message was left on my phone saying ‘it’s a complete and utter bluff.’

Miki has also lead people to believe that this was his life’s work and he has sunk his life savings into this project. This is not the case. Significant financial backing was provided by another party, who has been royally shafted. Without that backing, its likely the project would have never got off the ground.

Bert Burger commented:

Jimmy , i know exactly what Miki said about being the mastermind behind the tech of a well known high profile brand , also why it was said …

it was the most logical way of dealing with one of the other circling sharks at the time …

Miki soon that gave shark a serious near fatal blow ,and it scurried off hungry …

Ok, Jimmy, you came up with a lot of “interesting” stuff. This one went straight back in your face again. My advice for the third time, use only things you can support with proof. I am very sure most people will see through your claims now.

You stated you do not like this kind of stuff so why did you start it? You are “naming” people in here who most certainly do not want to be named and who are not needed. Or did “he” give you permission? I doubt it.

Also, I do know your next move. Its a habbit of mine to think far ahead. Keep in mind, three donkeys pulling a carriage will not make it go better, only more vulnerable. Stop it if you can, it is not too late yet.

I promise, better spell checks and no more poems…

212

Barnfield is right! I tried to buy a ASP3000 and they would not sell me one either. I have a 3DM machine instead that really works well. Shape 3D which runs my machine has improved since Thomas has been more involed. As a result the 3DM machine is not the same as the original ones. The point is there are a lot of alternatives. There are many types of design software available. If ASP3000 is not willing to sell you a machine buy a 3DM or if you are low on funds get a Brazillian machine. One feature I like is I can import files from the APS3000, DNS or KKL - fix them in Shape 3D and send the file in G code to my machine. Thomas has written a new cutting path to give a more complete rail. So the 3DM Machine that is on Oahu does not represent what the new machines can do today. This tread is about the APS3000 so I will add that MIKI is a bright guy and has designed a nice machine. Like Clark foam shutting down: We now have many choices. This goes for Shaping machines as well!

Come over when your on the mainland and I’ll scan (I have a digitizer) and cut one of your models for you to give you an example of how far it’s progressed.

You can use my shaping bay whenever your in town.

Kind regards,

213

Was not going to worry about this bullshit again, swaylocks tells you that you have a reply on the email, whatever Halsose, it’s been niggling me ever since I found it on my car Friday morning, an advertising flyer, surfboard sale, and these guys have the best surfers in the world riding their boards, dhd, pipedream,murray bourton, simon, new boards from 350.00, ex team boards from 75.00. Businesses have sales, that’s how it goes, guy next door[glass factory] reckons it’s their second one this year. I don’t care about shaping machine wars, let them get to it, but I can talk about this industry and this local area and if the worlds best surfers ride your boards, why would you have to sell them for half price, twice in the space of three months? I’ll tell you why, because you’ve made too many boards. Now we have shaping machine wars and if you just had a few shaping machines, well maybe that would be cool, cause in reality, the’re selling technology, the’re bits and pieces are worth f’‘k all, so how long will it take for them to start dropping their prices? I don’t apologise for coming across old fashioned and probably way worse, goose, dreamer, f’'k I don’t care, I know what’s going on with this shit and the bottom line is the pie is the same size, it does’nt matter how fast you can do them and don’t anyone on here tell me this is’nt about greed, shaped myself a new 6’4" today, cheers H.

214

So… how many APS 3000’s you buyin’ Bert…?

Now that Sunovas back on the scene, I figure you gotta be good for a couple…

Is that the machine you already got on order…?

So have you ordered it from Miki or have you ordered it from Jimmy…?

Perhaps you’ll hedge your bets and get one from each…

215

actually , no shaping machine developed for surfboards is up to the task of doing the complete process on composite boards yet…

its something else all together ,developed in house , design program , machine , post processor , systems , then applied to the tech …

a random collection of stuff from other industries and pieced together …

its a whole new ball game …

actually i wish i was good for a couple …

reality is , my house is keeping me alive right now , until i can crank something up again …

regards

BERT

216

With all due respect to the gentlemen concerned…

what gets me is why is all this happening in the public swaylocks forum… bizarre… has it gotten so bad you all need an audience to be like roosters at a chook fight? Can’t you guys just grab a phone and sort it out? Is the greed that bad? The ego’s that bent? This type of conflict only feeds lawyers, not surfers…

C’mon and get it together and lets build boards or go surfing…

LOL!

And we used to get concerned about Roy v. Bill threads… sheesh that was nothing compared to this…

217

The lawyers aren’t going to like this idea. But, since there is almost no top end to the costs of a protracted international legal dispute, and you guys seem comfortable having an open court type of argument. Why not decide on a jury of some respected, (and neutral), Sway’s members, and have a binding arbitration settlement trial? Hoo Ha

Sickdog

218

…when I refered to a cheaper machine which you can use shape 3D software in 1 S America country, I m not talked about the Brazilian one

so, like you say, for the guy who wants one, there re many options

and exactly like C Foam, if you can search, you find better or equal materials and options

219

From talking with him, I know Jimmy is tired as hell from having to check and continue this post. Problem is, Miki has chosen Swaylocks as his means to paint the picture he wants to paint within the surfing community. When confusing and often incorrect posts are being made, someone (forgot who it was) hit the nail on the head when he said silence is damning. Hell, it’s bad enough Miki was calling the current prospective machine buyers on a daily basis to overwhelm them with his “I’m the victim here” side of the story. Honestly, I’m curious as to why none of the prospective buyers have joined the forum to support either side of this as they would likely be the ones who know the most about both sides of the story. If I were going to spend $65k on a machine, I’d make sure to do far more research than just reading this thread and making a few phone calls. Then again, you don’t want to piss off the guys that might be supporting you down the road if the guys you bought the machine from stop supporting you. Maybe it’s a good call they stay out of it?

Either way, this never should have been a discussion on swaylocks (at least not one outside of the industry talk forum), but that is what Miki has made it and unfortunately will likely be the place it will continue until the dust settles.

220

Well Bert…

So are you now telling us that the APS isn’t good enough for you…?

If the machine you have on order is not a APS then wot sort of machine is suitable?

Makita…Metabo…Ryobi…or perhaps a good old Oz made brand like Black & Decker (LOL)…

We wouldn’t have any cheap Asian crap making Sunovas would we?

Interesting you mention

"a random collection of stuff from other industries and pieced together … "

Reading your shaper of the year article, I thought that you had only ever worked in the surfboard industry. How do you get a random collection of stuff from other industries if youve never been in any other industry.

"…my house is keeping me alive right now "

Having sold out to FW…being paid to keep quiet…you’re now crying poor…?

Just doesn’t make sense to me…

Me thinks that there is far too much BS on this thread…