Heres the deal. I just finished a custom gun 7’10 x 19" x 2 5/8 for a customer, and took it out to Pleasure Point this weekend to test it out. I get a call this afternoon from him telling me there is a huge crack on the bottom above the two side fins. He tells me him and his friend both got up on it twice in 2-3 foot surf and when they got out they noticed the ding. I asked him if he hit a rock or something and he said no. When he brought it over to my shop i took a look and noticed a small ding on the rail about 12" from the nose, the anchor fin was srcuffed up on the top and the crack from rail to rail on the bottom. He tried blaming it on the foam density, but i have shaped a 5’8 1lb density eps with no stringer epoxy board for a local rider Zoltan, and he surfed it 10 times or so before he snapped it at natural bridges the day of the Mavericks contest. The custom i just shaped was Bio-Foam 2 ilb and glassed it 9.3oz deck and 6.2 oz bottom with Epoxy. I am thinking if the foam was too soft he would of put pressures on the deck but the deck was clean. I guess what i am getting at is this guy wants a refund so he can buy another board even though i offered to repair it for free. Should i refund him the money or not?
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is it fin boxs or glassons either/or you need patches for them a 6oz bottom would require another 6 oz patch at least
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only a kook would ride a custom gun in 2 ft surf , dont make boards for kooks
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if it was me id say no you dont replace boards that are dinged
he should even flick you a twenty fo the repair
4 be prepared fro the backlash that a disgruntled kook will bring(note paul jensen)
is it fin boxs or glassons either/or you need patches for them a 6oz bottom would require another 6 oz patch at least
only a kook would ride a custom gun in 2 ft surf , dont make boards for kooks
if it was me id say no you dont replace boards that are dinged
he should even flick you a twenty fo the repair
4 be prepared fro the backlash that a disgruntled kook will bring(note paul jensen)
Yeah, i went 8 oz fin box patches with The Standard Fin Box’s from Surf Source ( Customers Choice). And you are right he is a kook, only been surfing twice before. I tried talking him into a mini malibu but he was verry persistant on the gun. I gave him a pretty good deal too $440.00 with fins.
yeah bro alarms bells would of gone off straight aways if it was me doing a deal with him
yeah your sweet your dead right its his problem
but try and be tactful
did you explain that guns were for 6ft hawaiian plus surf and he would probably never experience that as an older guy getting into surfing
fckn hell ive been surfing for 20 years and id still be shitting myself in surf i would need a gun
The damage is the result of abuse, not material failure. Tell the guy to f**k off. It’s like asking GM to replace your Chevy, after you hit a tree!
yeah bro alarms bells would of gone off straight aways if it was me doing a deal with him
yeah your sweet your dead right its his problem
but try and be tactful
did you explain that guns were for 6ft hawaiian plus surf and he would probably never experience that as an older guy getting into surfing
fckn hell ive been surfing for 20 years and id still be shitting myself in surf i would need a gun
Thats funny you said that, i actually told him all the board would do for him in surf under double overhead is float, and he still wanted it.
yeah man if i had a custom gun from a good shaper it would live on the wall for the big days
“the anchor fin was srcuffed up on the top”
Sounds like he hit a rock. Tough luck.
Sounds sus to me. Most warranties exclude applications of the product as manufacturers have no control over how a product is used. Reasonable surfers know this. This person may simply be inexperienced and think such damage should be covered. If this isn’t the case, I’ll stick by my opening comment.
It does raise the issue of whether shops need some sign stating what is/isn’t covered and get legal advice about whether the statement is consistent with state law/consumer rights. Having to do something like this goes against the grain of surfing and makes life more complicated.
Offering to do the repair is a reasonable offer. Re-reading the Paul Jensen thread may be instructive.
regards
Bob
this is suspect to me too, sounds like a kook.
Do you really want this guy as a future customer? do yoy really need the business, can you comfortably afford to absorb the loss, if the answer to any of these ? id no then tell him to do one.
You’ve offered to fix it for free it’s more than most guys would, we’ve drope the odd board on concrete or knocked them on door fraims by accedent with out a single ding before.
If it wos me I’d be insulted that he would even attempt that shit. Call his bluff - Why not mess with his head a little for fun as well - tell him you personally tested the board in good surf and your 100% confident in the quality of your construction, hand him a broom handle, tell him he has to hit the board with it, if it dings you will repair the board for free, but if it doesn’t then no refund.
Gauge his reaction, you can always stop him before he actually hits it but chances are he may just admit that it was him.
I was pullin into the packed parkin lot and a big white suv w someones g-friend was backin up and over her boyfriends longboard he had stashed out of the sun underneath, the tail in front of the fins kinda buckled up - next case - I was headin for the water and a guy swung into an empty stall and didn’t see the two shortboards waitin for their masters to get changed and one of them did a rear buckle up.
I have seen rocks, plenty. I have seen other guys meet rocks too! Worst recent one was uppers, guy massacred his gun bottom but no crease. I have never creased one unbelievably and I have taken some poundings.
Sadly your board may have taken the damage without being in the water.
wish the guy could respect your work more than the dough.
sounds like a lying thief.
Sounds sus to me. Most warranties exclude applications of the product as manufacturers have no control over how a product is used. Reasonable surfers know this. This person may simply be inexperienced and think such damage should be covered. If this isn’t the case, I’ll stick by my opening comment Offering to do the repair is a reasonable offer. Re-reading the Paul Jensen thread may be instructive
After the now-infamous Jensen legal debacle I had to try to change my outlook on things. That fiasco was enough to blow my blood pressure through the roof…and I can feel it rising just thinking about it. But that involved someone who “knew the ropes”, so to speak.
If I was in this current (WSSC) situation and the guy was admittedly new, I would try to adopt an inclusive attitude…be friendly but firm and explain that in your experience and the experience of a couple of experienced friends that the damage pretty much had to happen ---- ways, not through normal wave-riding. Explain the offer to repair it free is not something you or anyone else normally makes, but that you want him to have a good first experience. Establish that he is inexperienced but don’t be harshly judgemental and snotty.
The whole concept of “saving face” and manners…they’re ways to work through stuff. It would be better for both parties to work through this and maybe you’ll get a good loyal customer out of it. By going the extra mile and giving him a chance you have the high road.
Of course if the guy is just a dick…
Nels,
No argument from me on this. The starting point of both our positions is some form of assessment of this guys motivation/experience/understanding. Following Nels approach would, I think, quickly demonstrate how reasonable or otherwise the guy was and whether plan B is warranted. Ultimately, it is a question of an individual’s preference as to how conflict is resolved.
Bob
demonstrate how reasonable or otherwise the guy was and whether plan B is warranted. Ultimately, it is a question of an individual’s preference as to how conflict is resolved.
I’m not joking about the Wooden Board Incident (ought to get Paul’s name away from that)…that was so far out past the edge of reason and into the universe of Scumsucking Weaseldom that I had to reassess how I respond, blind rage not really being a strong suit for anybody. And I wasn’t even involved…
Which isn’t to say I have a lot of tolerance for people getting steamrolled in other situations. But I’ve certainly seen surf shops that punish customers, and that affects how the customers do things down the line. Maybe this guy came in already feeling half victmized and is just “looking for a home”. By giving the person half a chance and a dignified retreat option the businessperson gets a chance at winning a long-term customer and most certainly gets to sort that customer by quality. In this particular situation a one-time free repair to the builder’s satisfaction is more than fair; demand for anything more is sadly mistaken at best. Maybe a discounted trade in on a more appropriate surfboard for him if he’s serious could be considered if he seems decent.
Just wanted to update you guys on the situation. He came over today trying to get a refund for the board. It kinda pissed me off since i found another ding towards the nose, so i told him he had two options, leave the board at my shop and i will call you when its repaired, or leave my shop right now and take you dinged board with you. He chose to have me repair it. I had to delam the back third of the bottom, remove the two outside fin boxes and wet foam. It almost looks like someone ran over it with a car. Well, thanks to all of you who gave advice, thats what makes this site so great.
Sounds like they were taking turns dry surfin’ it on the beach …probably tandem…
Too much weight on it gave it a good crack across the bottom.
LOL
keep the hours spent on the repair.
pay yourself well.
thereby estimate the value
of the remainder - refund
when he comes to pick it up
hand him the refund minus the ding repair,
ask him if he wants to buy the board
for what he has in his hand
[the money you just handed him}
if he has to have time making the decision
tell him to leave and he has 24 hours to respond
yea or nay.
Go on to explain
The forensics of ding repair
revealed that some one
]perhaps the eeevil twin lurking in the shadows]
ran afoul of a rock?was it as low a tide in pp
as it was in the rest of the world the day of the first run?
if his friend denies complicity inform the guy who his friends are,you.
you offered to fixit = Good friend
worst possible scenario when he pix it up
he will return the next day
with a worse ding.
…ambrose…
cutting your losses
will save you
from taking this
poor soul on for a lifetime
of surfboard greif.
some people need a surf tech.
…ambrose…
cutting your losses
will save you
from taking this
poor soul on for a lifetime
of surfboard greif.
Reminds be of when I once took on some boards for this guy, Ok guy, but others had said he was not worth doing business with. As he was a fairly promentant long standing guy I thought they were just bitter coz they wern’t gettign the work.
He wanted them done quick and I came down on the price as there was the promise of a pretty steady stream of work.
I delivered on the boards as I promised but the guy made a fuss about picking them up, even though his time frame for gettign them done was super tight. I’d told him that at the time I didn’t drive.
After several calls and him telling me he has left messages (lie) get fed up and decide to drop them off.
The whole time I just got this feeling that he was trying to find something wrong so he could try to get the price down, you know
luckerly my mate used to work with the guy (didn’t kown this till I vented) told me a few storied about he’d been dicked around too. So I call to say we would drop them off, on the way for a surf and chucked em in the back. The Guys fine with that guess thats what he wanted all along.
Any way we drop them off and any he gives them a real good inspection all other over, I’ve got no problem with that, He can’t fault them even complments my work. Then hands me about 2/3s of what I’m owed, say he hasn’t got the rest of the money. B’shit coz we know he keeps it up stairs so we refuse to leave till we get paid, eventulay he goes and gets the rest.
Then he says he’d like me to take on another 5! Can you guess my reply? No amount of money is worth the hassel, guy needs to find another mug, I’ll never do anymore work for him.
Guess maybe I should have asked for the money up front then taken ages to do the work but I’m sure he’d only demand a refund for somthing or other, or bad mouth me, much easier to cut my loss, way I see his loss not mine. Best decision I ever made.
Sooner or latter someone will alway try thier luck
You did the right thing.
Some people grew up with the Cost U Less mentality! Poly board , whatever, chuck it off the car drag it down the stairs ,across the road, over the rocks, whatever!! It’s normal to them, they don’t know any better. They expect a no hassel refund just like at the big box stores. Look at the car they drive, the clothing they ware, and the way they talk. If you even get the drift that that is where there head is at don’t ever do a job for them. They don’t know the difference between a real Dick Brewer and a surf tec. Tell em to suck rocks ! take a hike! You did your job ! You don’t owe them anything !!! I guess Paul learned that the hard way! Aloha Wood_Ogre