What's the best way to achieve a lasting, bright color?

Hello Swaylockers

 

Simple question.  Not sure there’s a simple answer.

 

Have been talking to my shaper about building a bright, lime green (gloss) board.  I’m looking for a color that won’t instantly fade in the sunshine,  Can anyone suggest a source?  We’ve been looking at "RAL’ shades - but none of them have that ‘zingyness’ about them.

 

Any thoughts people?  All suggestions welcomed and appreciated.

I assume you’re talking about transparent color because Opaques don’t tend to fade.

Trans yellows by some companies have fading problems, Hastings was the worst.  Start with fiberglass hawaii’s transparent yellow and add any transparent blue until you get the lime green you like.  Fiberglass Hawaii’s yellow won’t fade.

 

It be great if resin pigment dispersions came with a lightfasteness rating like some artist acrylics do.

That would leave some of the trial and error out it.

If the color is going to be painted on the foam, Nova Color # 120 yellow green has lightfastness rating of “I” which is excellent.

Avoid flourencent colors. They fade and discolor pretty quickly out in the sun.

 

"Avoid fluorescent colors. They fade and discolor pretty quickly out in the sun."

 

  oh dear , there goes my latest batch of FINS ,  then !

 

I'll get back to you on just HOW fast that happens , after a few test surfs , I guess ?  

[finished these today ....]

fluorofinsjan15th2012024.jpg

 

...it will be 'interesting'[? disappointing actually , probably ?!] to see if it will be the corematted , or the 'non-corematted ' ones , that fade first .... 

 

  cheers !

  ben

Back in the late 90’s, when resin color was making a comeback, Channin borowed some flourecent yellow tint from Fins Unlimted next door to do some yellow tint glass jobs. The stuff faded pretty quickly out in the sun, particularly on the single layer bottoms. Using it in fin sheets will buy you a longer lifespan to the color since there are like 20 to 30 or so layers in a fin sheet hense the color is denser.

 

...yes , let's hope so !

 

  I wonder if it still retains a FAIR BIT of yellowness after fading , with 36 layers of yellow [foiled down to probably ? 5 or less ?  layers  , on the tip and trailing edges of the fins , though ...]

 

 Atomized , do you know if those channin boards ended up almost CLEAR , after ? a year or two ?

 

I would hope that nowadays , "fluorescent" tints are more 'fade-proof' , than they were in the 1990s ?? [ ....that's a LONG time ago , after all !]

 

 With four  of my current batch of 'fluoro' fins ,  I mixed the flourescent TINT , with lime green PIGMENT . [Yes , we get lime green / "apple green " PIGMENT , here !] ....

....It will be interesting to see if there is less / NO fading , with THOSE ones , eh ?!

 

....to be continued ....

 

 for 'up the junction' , and back to your original question ......

 

  is there not a lime / apple green SPRAYPAINT available , for you to spray the foam and / or 'sanded coat' filler coat ['sanding coat ', in U.S.A. ?]  with , prior to gloss coating THE BOARD ? 

 

IS there a particular reason you wanted it a tint / pigment , as opposed to a spray job ??

 

I ask because , hopefully , with a good airbrusher , you can still get good , even , rich colour ....

 

Are you in california ? 

 

....if so , is 'Moonlight Glassing' anywhere near you ?

 

  cheers !

 

   ben  

 

CAR PAINT

have the body shop guys paint it

or the big boat yard guys with that fancy schmantzy 

high criterion paint or buy some and JUST PAINT IT .

if pigment read the jar… 10z pigment to the quart!

green? oh wadda deal!The best board ever!

…ambrose…

The tints on the boards started to look “washed out” after a few weeks of regular sun exposure. Same thing happened with the flourecent orange and green that they also used. I never saw what the boards looked like a year later though.

Flourecents photochemically react with UV light to produce the strong chroma intensity that you see. That photochemical reaction evetually will run it’s course and dwindle away so the colors will fade. The thicker the coating the longer that takes. You can coat over the colors with a UV inhibitor to slow down the fading. Polyester and some epoxy resin have UV inhibitors (as well as optical brightners) in them to keep the resin and the blanks from turning yellow or brown too soon.

Flourecents where all the rage during the 80’s. Boards painted with them looked really cool for a short while and started to look like crap pretty quickly afterwards. Dealers would call up complaining that the boards we sent them had discolored in the store window. Those paints almost put me out of a job back then.

I stick with good lightfast acrylic paint these days, though some customers still insist on getting “Neon” colors painted on their boards.

As far as the lime green/apple green paint - I prefer mixing my colors from existing pigment primaries. So in this case I would use Bithmuth Yellow mixed with Phthalo Green and Titanium White to aproximate those colors. 

I’m in San Clemente. Moonlight is about 45 minutes south from here.

histricly the cross polination from hot rods

to surfing had a lot to do with color.

the car guys win the galactic olympic gold medal

for color particularities and polish.

a trip to the I know ship carpaint catalogue

I am sure would be boggling

to the surfing mind.

the old [twenny years ago]

go to paint was Dupont Imron?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150970883959&item=150970883959&lgeo=1&vectorid=229466

what fantastic paints now I don’know

http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/b/mar/boat-clear-coat.html

Yacht and boat clear coat

A polyurethane clear coat represents the first line of defence when it comes to protecting yachts and boats. A high-performance boat clear coat such as DuPont™ Imron® MS1™ will shield the color coat from the sun’s intense UV rays and protect it from the harmful effects of marine chemicals, abrasions and weathering.

 
Product features
  • 3.5 VOC, three-component, polyurethane clear coat
  • Premium appearance, high gloss finish
  • Excellent sag resistance and productive dry times
  • Ideal over DuPont™ MS600™ topcoat to improve the appearance of dark colors or metallics, or over properly prepared exterior and interior wood surfaces to enhance appearance and durability

 

 

but they are two part and cost buku bux

in like pts and quarts pushing a hundret bux.

or more?

…ambrose…

paint  oooh baby…

"pigment is roots and the best for the durability

I believe that to my very soul.

but Paint is Paint and how

you gonna go will be a facination.

I cant wait to see what will do your sensibilities.

 

Did you once say that you used to do work for Eberly back in the 80s? I got a 9’4" from him in 87 and when I picked it up at the shop it was shipped to, the red airbrush was splotchy. The board had been in the shop window for a couple of days. The splotches disappeared pretty quick and the color evened out. I think there had been something draped over the board while it was in the window.

That was another quirk with flourecents. It starts to happen after the board gets glassed, and this was problem we had to deal with all the time during production. After the board gets glassed and hot coated, the order card for the board was taped to the deck or the bottom of the board. Just sitting in the shop waiting to get glassed under just the shop lights, the flourecents would darken up except where the order card was covering the board. It would leave a lighter ghosted silhouette of the order card. At first there was the usual finger pointing that is was overspray. Finally once we figured out what was happening, the fix was really simple - just put the board out in the sun for a few minutes and color would even out.

This would most likely explain what was happening with your board.

 

 

 

 

…I fixed kind of similar things with a hairdrier.

 

-now, I have been experimenting with very tiny bubbles in spot places when I let the board glassed and hot coated under the Sun for the UV cat, so those things makes me mad.

The foam kind of gassing due to the Sun, normally I do solid depth colors, like Red, Orange, etc

I’ve got a Brewer gun in storage that was shaped in the mid '90’s, glassed Lime Green fluoresent.  I don’t know how much time it spent in the Maui sun as it came to me second hand; but, it now looks as though it is a clear Volan with a cut lap. The deck shows a little more of the color than the bottom because it spent most of it’s life under a layer of wax.  The bottom looks like a clear Volan probably because it spent time laying on the beach or on top of a car  For it’s age the Clark Foam Blank still looks fairly white, not yellow.  The green tint protected the foam from the sun but died doing so.   I agree with Gene;  The best colorants. opaques and tints, I’ve used are those sold by Fiberglass Hawaii.  Got no idea who the manufacturer is.  Love those fluoresent tints though.  Lime green and lemon yellow, 

I shot big boats with Awl Grip and Imron for 25 years.  That paint is designed for the harshest UV situations.  On the water WITH reflected light, or on airplanes.  Both situations are in constant UV.  And I can tell you that the color does fade but ever so slowly at first.  After a year or so the process begins to speed up which makes color matching a pain.  Even with stock colors.  Custom mixes require mixing artistry to match and blend well.  The trick to making the shine last the longest was to mix the last pass in a 3 pass shoot, 50/50 with high solids clear.  This rose to the surface to cure and gave a deep shiny look to the surface.   But the layer of clear acts like a magnifying glass on the pigment molecules.  It stays shiny but the color starts changing even faster.  I imagine paint under glass is the same

i hoped I could render some boat paint expertise input.

thanx for speaking up Dr. Fever.

interesting to consider the clear coat

as an accelerant to fading.

…ambrose…

 

I tried pigments from 3 different suppliers. Fiberglass Hawaii has good stuff. Lime green is a great color and very forgiving since it is mostly yellow.Follow Gene’s advice and you can’t go wrong.

THIS is the 'lime green ' / 'apple green ' I get [PIGMENT] ,  here in perth , west australia ...

DSCF1769.jpg

  cheers

 

  ben

Thank you to everyone who has been good enough to reply.

We’ll try to track down the Fiberglass Hawaii (thanks Gene) and the Nova Color (thanks Atomized).

 

Sadly - I’m in the UK and not CA (so I think Moonlight is going to be out of the question…!)

It’s snowing heavily here.  Not a bad time to be thinking about a nice new board…

 

Cheers people!

[quote="$1"]

I shot big boats with Awl Grip and Imron for 25 years.  That paint is designed for the harshest UV situations.  On the water WITH reflected light, or on airplanes.  Both situations are in constant UV.  And I can tell you that the color does fade but ever so slowly at first.  After a year or so the process begins to speed up which makes color matching a pain.  Even with stock colors.  Custom mixes require mixing artistry to match and blend well.  The trick to making the shine last the longest was to mix the last pass in a 3 pass shoot, 50/50 with high solids clear.  This rose to the surface to cure and gave a deep shiny look to the surface.   But the layer of clear acts like a magnifying glass on the pigment molecules.  It stays shiny but the color starts changing even faster.  I imagine paint under glass is the same

[/quote]

I also spent a lot of time with a big gun and pressure pot allying Awl Grip. Sterling, Enron. They are all excellent products . 

 The Marine industry now has some very fine Monourethane finishes that are a lot less expensive then the two part coating systems.  they will not have the durability or quality of the two part systems but the cost is a lot less about $35-$40 for a quart and some colors can be found in pint size cans. I have had very good results brushing monourethans Epifanes  a Brand from Holland  so far has shown the best results. Can't see any brush stroke and looks like a spay application.