Hey all, I want to make a slightly expanded traditional Lis fish for my second board. My first was a 5’6, but it’s a bit on the small side for me. I’ve decided on a 6’2 for my second one. To get the dimensions, I just got the Lis fish template and multiplied everything by 1.14, and it works out fine for a perfectly scaled-up fish. However, the widepoint is now almost 24", which seem a bit wide even for a fish! Would there be any downside to a fish this wide, aside from the backside difficulties that the traditional fish has anyway? Should I narrow it down a bit, and would the slightly modified rail line affect anything enough to matter? If I do go this wide, I’d probably put extra V in the tail for better rail-to-rail transitions…I’d appreciate any input from all the fish masters out there!
Aloha … Look just 2 pages back in this forum . I asked the same Question 2 days ago… And got some good answers… The thread title was “How Wide is Too Wide”
Hope this helps... Mahalo , D. J.
What are you doing with the other fish?
24" is way too wide,
it will be slow in going rail-rail at that width.
Aussie styled kneeboards can go 23" and some wider
but that is with some design issues like moving the fins
way up the tail that improves the rail-rail turning speed.
I’d do a search and find the dimensions that Steve Brom
is currently using he basically invented the ‘rocket fish’ versions
of these in the early-mid 70’s at lengths of about your size and bigger. He shaped for Dyno surfboards what David Nuihawaa
was riding back then.
As to multiplying all your dimensions by a constant factor,
that sounds reasonable but in reality it is very bad.
Well, a 6’2" x 24" wide fish would be fine for a 230lb guy with size 13 feet!
Or a tiny wave board for less than chest high!
Three years ago, I rode a 8’3" x 39" (95cm) board in tiny surf, and it was OK once it reached higher speeds.
It was a Formula windsurf board I had atop my car for a late in the day clinic.
Why wider??? I would go narrower-like 20-21.Traditional?? Sounds sooooo republican!! haha… Forget the V!! Go concave.A 6ft 4 and 24 inches wide --why not just get a door!
My fish is 6’4" x 22.5" x 2 7/8". I am about 225 pounds.
When I scaled up an outline of a 5’6" it was really wide and I thought even 22.5" was too wide but did it anyway.
This is my most ridden board as it is just so fun. There is a slight concave running the full length.
I have size 12 feet and the board is nice and maneuvourable for me, but my small friends hate the board cos they cant make it turn. Only problem is that I accidently made the rails pretty soft and they dont bite at all when I am trimmed forward.
I was thinking about making a slightly shorter and wider board (maintaining same boaty flotation) say 6’1 or 6’2 at 23". I cant go thicker on the blank than 2 7/8". I want more of a skatey feel with harder rails for better bite. I may introduce a little vee, or simply keep it a single concave.
This board is the ultimate lazy mans board as it floats so well.
Thanks for the replies all. My reason for multiplying by a constant factor was because that’s how we made perfect scale versions of RC Airplanes from scale 3-views when I was a kid, but now I’m realizing that it’s probably not the best way for surfboards. I think I’ll scale the widepoint down to around the 22" range, and keep the other dimensions relatively the same. As far as being too wide, I’m a pretty big guy, 6’2 and 195 (probably closer to 205 with fullsuit, booties etc.) and I personally have found width to be not as important a factor as others have. My day-to-day shortboard is a 6’6 by 20 3/4 by 2 1/2, and I also have a 8’0 Vertigo that I had shaped in New Zealand that is almost 22" wide. Personally, I like a board that pushes back a little. As far as my 1st fish, it’s the perfect size for my wife, so it goes to her!
Hotcoat: Thanks for pointing me to your thread, actually answered pretty much all of my questions.
hi
i did the same thing, i have a scaled up lis template 6’2 by 24" or so.
i made a big fish from it but pulled the width in a bit and lost an inch in the lenght at the same time - 6’1 / 22 1/4" / 3" out of a 69a blank, with lokbox keel fins.
i am 6’1 200lbs and size 12 feet. for me the board works great, but i left to much foam in the board overall so its very floaty and doesnt duckdive well!
when i make a replacement i will go shorter (5’10) a bit narrower (21") and loose some volume, the template makes up for the apparent small size of the board, it seems weird walking to the beach with a tiny board after riding 6’8 shortboards, but you really can go shorter than you think,
i hope that helps
as ever
keen to learn…
I just use the underarm rule. If you can’t comfortably carry it under your arm, it’s too wide.
For real though, I’d say don’t go wider than 22". Bump up the thickness by 1/8" if you have to. I know a few people who have gone from riding longboards or funshapes to riding Lis/Frye style fishes and it often comes down to adjusting to riding that style of board.
I just recieved my new classic fish from Kane Garden surfboards in SanDiego.
It was shaped by Larry Mabile. I’m 49 yr old and rode several fishes between the age of 17yrs old and 24 yrs old. Both boards were sub six ft. The first one was like 5’8" x20" wide x 17"nose x 16" tail. The new board I just recieved circa 2005 is 6"1"x 17" nose x 21" wide x17" x 2.7 thick ( double 4oz top & single 4oz bottom). It has for the most part a skip Frye influenced template. I agree that the board seizes to function as a fish beyound this length. really above six foot you head into twin fin territory. That’s what Reno and the two time aussie champ Mark Richards)( back in the 80’s) figured out. The fish is a one sweet spot board. As they added length they started moving away from the really wide “KEEL” fin and into a wide base deeper conventional fin (I emphasize wide base as you capture some of the keel fin characteristics). Then they added a stubby wing to pull in the tail from 17" to more like 15".
I believe Al Merrick still make this style twin. I’ve never ridden a rocket fish but they do have the deepish swallow and a variation of the keel fin. Noses
appear to be narrower and the back half of the board has that straighter tradion of the old fish. I belive its Clyde Beatty surfboards down in Santa Barbara that make the original Rocket fish. The IMO the fish is not a bottom turning board as mush as it is a mid face / immediate planeing surfboard. You don’t really lay a 21" wide board on its rail . You’ll notice Derek Hynd in
Litmus movie riding at J Bay. Goes a million miles an hour when the board is not on rail.
Bye, Ron freeman
But surely one of the sweetest feelings on a fish is letting it run soooo far out in front of the wave, even fading a little, then laying it on edge and letting the long straight rail and big inside fin work their magic. I can’t get enough of big bottom turns on my fishes, and won’t go wider than 21", making sure not to compromise that aspect.
Cheers
Maz
No I’m really referring to the modern style bottom turn (straight down & straight up surfing the thruster style) that hard off the bottom and straight up “S” turn. The fish just like to project out and then up. That elongated bottom turn I agree is great on a fish (botom turn and shoot out and down the line way out from the curl). It can get a little squirly in stuff too much overhead. The best thing about a fish is all that glide and speed. In the movie Broken Melody you can watch Rob Machado riding a fish in Cost Rica. He comes out of a nice pump and he glides thru two sections (he’s just standing there, the board is doing its thing). You know alot of young surfers just don’t like a board with much glide as it will take them away from the pocket. I love the glide!! The fish is maybe the most magical board I ever rode. Ron freeman
6’-4" x 23 1/4 x 1 7/8 …
bobsie made a good point about his small friends not being able to get it on the rail …
leedd was right on with his size estimate with size 13 feet …
im 220 lb 6’-4" with size 13 feet …
this board goes off for me in small surf … normally i wont ride it in anything over head high …but ive been riding it for about a year now and last week surfed it in head and a half and it just handled it , surprised me …
the taller you are the easier you can bank a wide board onto the rail …hal sose’s comments are only true if you keep to much volume …
this board goes rail to rail at lightning speed , i can go top to bottom in quick succession , even doing 2 quick off the tops without even a full bottom turn before the second one …
short fat guys are the hardest to make good boards for …
24 is not to wide if you have the height to get it on the rail …
regards
BERT
You don’t really lay a 21" wide board on its rail .
A rail is a rail. Width has nothing to do with an individual rail.
Transitions from rail to rail involve width. A turn/carve on a lightning-fast short board with a relatively long rail (to its length) is a bit tricky. You have to be able to set and release the rail with your feet as quick as the board requires.
You need to surf well before fishing…
My fish:
rolliges,
As an English major, a writer, as well as a shaper, I’m a bit confused as to the point you are trying to make in your first sentance. The second paragraph does little to clear up my confusion. I’m not trying to slam you; I simply don’t understand what you are trying to convey. Width has nothing to do with an individual rail? Transitions from rail to rail involve width? I’m sure you have a concept in mind here but your English doesn’t explain it very well.
Also, regarding your apparent implication (vis-a-vis your final statement) that Mr. Ron Freeman is not an accomplished enough surfer to understand the subtleties and nuances of the fish design, obviously you missed his age and history (specifically with riding the fish design) that he outlined in his initial post. In any event, let me assure you that Mr. Freeman needs no lecture from you or anyone else on surfing or the proper manner in which to surf a fish. I know Ron Freeman, and rolliges, you’re no Ron Freeman.
As for Bert, the board you pictured, although a wide beast, is no fish.